Led Zeppelin: Classic Or Dud?

With Zeppelin, the sound is the thing. Tom, you should approach Zep's body of work the way you would Dr. Dre's 2001. Sure, Dre is not the greatest rapper, but he knows how to lay down rhymes that compliment his brilliant productions. I would argue that the same holds true for Page & Plant. The massive, bottom-heavy sound that Page captured with his studio work reaches perfection only with Plant's voice floating on top.

All the while feeling vaguely smug and intellectual because of the Crowley and Tolkien references. Bleargh.

Fred's not totally wrong though -- the Zep had their occaisional moment, but they're still overrated beyond belief. Early Black Sabbath could have them for breakfast!

But the best reason to hate Zeppelin, as Nicole pointed out, is that they were a band who sung about J.R.R. Tolkien. I fucking hate Tolkien. J.R.R. fucking Tolkien is not rock 'n roll.

I loathe 'ver Zep', their sweatiness, their ponderousness (is that a word?) and their pretension. I'm very used to listening to music for the noise. Led Zeppelin make a nasty noise.

I don't think I've ever heard a band rock harder than the Roots Radics circa '81, and they sounded *beautiful*.

Tim

With regards to the man's general worth, though, we must differ. ;-)

1) There is nothing even remotely intellectual about Zep or their fans; their music is populism at its finest.

2) Hard to imagine what could be more smug than picking on teenage kids in middle America.

3) Why listen to Zep when you can listen to Sabbath? JOHN BONHAM. Black Sabbath, while masters of the riff (and Reality), had an anemic rhythm section. How many hip-hop groups have sampled Bill Ward's drum parts?

Zep ARE pretty sweaty, though.

Fred's right when he says Robert Plant's voice sounds like an escape (specifically, from the stuffiness and politeness of Britain when Plant was growing up) but, you know, you could say the same thing about fucking Merseybeat, for fuck's sake. While at the time they were hailed as an astonishing sonic progression from *that* lot over six years, Zep remind me of what Tom and I once said about the Beatles' hangers-on; you can't deny that they sounded like an escape and a new dawn for certain people listening to them, but that doesn't alter the fact that the music is terrible.

Yeah, Tom's nailed them good and proper.

Why listen to Led Zep when you have Black Sabbath? Because only listening to one band is boring unless it's The Cure or Prince.

but seriously (ha ha ha)! tom is oblivious to many of the things that make zep great, unless he's fooled me all of this time and is really into virtuosity and locking rhythm sections. ;) mark, as you say the music isn't really made for or by intellectuals. the concept of "suspension of disbelief" comes to mind, checking your brain at the door, etc., and if you're not up for that then, let me say it again, maybe zep isn't the band for you.

and what's all this talk of sabbath? are the same people who are criticizing robert plant's voice listening to a band fronted by ozzy? certainly, sabbath has created some incredibly sludgy and heavy riffs (and are probably currently a bigger influence than zep) but, as mark says, the rhythm section is weak and, God, i just can't *stand* ozzy. more power to you if you can!

And Pitchfork can kiss my arse ;).

i write paragraphs about them because i force myself to think about them: normally, zep isn't one of those bands one rattles on about. if i were listening to the music and *thinking* it'd be a conscious effort.

and pitchfork is *still* the internet king of music reviews, if you ask me. maybe -- and this is only a *maybe* -- you'd be in their league if you wrote a review, oh, more than once a month (or when the latest merritt album comes out).

The ironic thing, I've just realised, is that my reaction to Led Zep *is* pretty much 'instinctual' - as I said to Fred in chat a few days ago, the difference is that I'm basically more of a punk than him. So I like Motorhead, he likes Zep, and both of us look around for rationalisations as to why the other one is less rockin'. Having grown up on the British music press and their horror of anything approaching prog or dinosaur rock, my gut instinct is to mistrust the virtuosity and bombast of the Zep: so my negative judgement is based on that 'unthinking' reaction.

Of course, I *could* think myself into liking some of their stuff, but as Fred says, that's hardly the point...

Busta Rhymes - 'This Means War' samples 'Iron Man'

Cypress Hill - 'I Ain't Goin' Out Like That' samples 'The Wizard'

And I'm sure that 'Behind the Wall of Sleep' has been used on a record too, Okay it's not quite 'When the Levee Breaks' but it's still got a fucking good, if loose, groove

Who has more original, harder, stranger, colder, more bombastic riffs than Zep?

That said: Stairway to Heaven may be Zep's pop masterpiece, but pop isn't what I want out of a hard band. I've seen them twice but after the first album, they could only play arrangements of their multitracked recordings. If Zeps extraordinary arrangements bear any responsibility for the over-produced so-called power ballads that came after, I curse them. Finally, Jimmy played the coldest blues based solos ever - his solos bother me every time I hear them but, maybe that's a good thing.

as for zeppelin, to paraphrase cole gagne on branca, it does not matter what anyone thinks about them any more than it matters what anyone thinks of the sun. they were my ecstasy and education from ages 10-14 or so. i can't stand them most of the time now, after punk happened long ago for me but there are always precious moments when i can listen and get into it again. the reasons for loving them and hating them are both equally obvious and *don't matter*. zeppelin simply are.

curiously neglected so far:

i) the obvious vulnerable and androgynous qualities of robert plant's voice and persona. *this* is one item that separates them from standard macho beer-drinking rock and makes them valuable to misfit teen boys (god knows none of the *jocks* were listening to them in my gr 8 class).

ii) the tolkien's not there to make the fans feel smug and intellectual. fuck, when do most people read tolkien? gr 6? gr 7? it's there because, along with the music, zeppelin really aimed to create a fantasy-world and to achieve an otherworldly experience. item number two.

listening to just the cure all the time though. gah.

The best Zep, though, were "Physical Graffiti" and "Presence." The first LP of the former is the best funk record ever recorded (better even that Parliament/Funkadelic). The second is just great.

Kris.

Fuck you all

Later bands would imitate the screamin and screaching guitars; however, the rythm sectio could not be duplicated. Furthermore, the sound of led zeppelin was a result of a combination of many influencs,including indian classical and celtic. Later bands' sound was a result of musical interests within the band that were limited in genre.

All of the musicians in the band are of the highest quality. JImmy Page ranks as one of the best guitarists ever, and the rythm section of John Paul Jones an John Bonham is unrivaled. The songwritig duo of Page and Plant was also one of the best ever.

Contrary to the beliefs of some people who have posted, Led zeppelin set records for sales of tickets and albums. Their live performances shattered tickt sales records, due to elongated versions of songs such as moby dick, which is also an example of Bonham's amazing talent. They are also right behind the beatles in total record sales. HOwever, the beatles had 21 albums, where zep only had 10.

Now could somebody clarify how zeppelin isn't good, because i just don't see it.

I like Plant's voice.

But the stuff I think I most enjoy from them are when they were just plain goofy and/or eccentric. I'm thinking "Boogie with Stu", "Hats Off (to Roy Harper)", "The Crunge", "Hot Dog", etc

Can't think of too many weak moments from Zep, actually...

I can understand those who don't like them becasue of the Prog/Dinosaur overtones, but simply noting that they were in that field would negate the accusations of them bieng anti-intellectual and lacking skill.

Sure, some of their songs are *fairly* simple, but on the whole, they almost always managed to do something unexpected or quirky within the context of Loud Blues.

They're one of the few Rawk bands I can stand, because there's always something ungraspable about how they came to what they ended up doing. To me, if you can figure out how a band got to their end product (and could replicate it yourself), why bother listening to it?

Zeppelin's music, if you listen to it, was exstremly inventive and layered. Led Zeppelins actually musical influence can actually be felt most from everyone from Prince to REM to Jane's Addiction to Smashing Pumpkins. Not lame hair metal, lol. On the other hand all Black Sabbath ever influenced was moronic crap like death metal, or black metal and a bunch of low IQed, beer swilling "metal heads" with a mentality to "break stuff" and worship the devil. Please.

Also the comments about Led Zeppelin not being intellectual are ignorant in my opinion. Is Mozart not intellectual? He certainly did not have many lyrics about war or polotics did he? What was intellectual about Zeppelin was there musical ability. The world was filled with tons of good and lame bands that where "politcally consious", i think they where and still are a breath of fresh air. I like some Punk rock, but if you are that non-ecclectic as to be turned off to great musicans because of some silly ideal or scene (like punk) then your a idiot.

So, did Sabbath influence Iron Maiden or Judas Priest? Probably, but not in the way they might have liked. There may be a reason Maiden - a band that does few covers - did one of Whole Lotta Love, but never a single Sabbath tune.

So, did Sabbath influence Iron Maiden or Judas Priest? Probably, but not in the way they might have liked. There may be a reason Maiden - a band that does few covers - did one of Whole Lotta Love, but never a single Sabbath tune.

Ron

So they influenced R. Kelly, too!

Anyband with Bonham at the back was on to a winner (unless it was Bonham's own band) and Page and Plant ain't so bad either. Actually, I recall Ian Anderson of Jethro Tull fame telling Melody Maker back in the day that with his lyrics and Zep's music they "could have made quite a good little rock and roll band." Ha ha ha ha ha.. sorry, I laugh my ass off everytime I hear that.

Gimme Physical Graffiti everytime. I think it's actually too good, if that's possible, which it isn't, but it feels like it is when I listen to that album. Does anyone else know what I (don't) mean?

Actually quite many. Check out Sabbath's "Behind the wall of sleep".

But for the person who said 'Zeppelin=Overrated' and then trotted out Creedence FFS! Sheesh!! And to hear Plant getting sledged for his vocals and then having some numbnuts raving on about the monumentally mediocre Cure PURLEASE..

The best point in this entire thread is that Zeppelin's music has stood the test of time and that what passes for rock these days will be forgotten this time next year.

Cheers,

REB

this implicit progression was symbolised by the band's unwillingness to let their rip-offs go credited to the original writers

Led Zeppelin's blues songs are NOT ripoffs and they DID NOT steal them!! They don't sound ANYTHING like the originals. Have you ever heard "When the Levee Breaks" by Memphis Minnee? Or "In My Time of Dying" by Bob Dylan?? Ever notice that they sound absolutely NOTHING like Zep's versions??? I really hate it when rock critics say this to somehow degrade Zep's music. It was pretty much the reason why Rolling Stone hated Zep so much. As if that IN ANY WAY has anything to do with how Zep's records sound!!

1. When Zep were good they were really good!!!!!
2. When they weren't good, they really stunk!!!!!
3. Generally the good bits outwiegh the bad, up until about the last couple of albums!!!!!
4. Concert-wise, they were pretty good, if a little bombastic!!!!!
5. The Song Remains The Same being the major exception to the previous point!!!!!
6. It's pretty obvious they weren't just a "metal" band!!!!!!!
7. The bits about the hobbits are really funny!!!!!

I grew up in the '70's and worshiped Zep. When The Song Remains the Same came out I skipped school to see it. It sucked. All those imaginings I had of how much Zep ruled were dashed on the over-blown histronics on Dazed and Confused, I mean God save me,a therimin solo?
I think that this left open the door to The Ramones and the Pistols for me. When Rotten pointed at the dinosaur, I saw it in my record collection.
So I have stood as a Zeppelin detractor for 20 years, then I heard How the West was Won, and ...ah-ha! Here was the band that I loved.

1. when the levee breaks - New Orleans
water

2. Kashmir - Asian Earthquake
earth

what next? something related to the sun? the moon?

Go listen to this list of songs then come tell me zep aren't good, infact why noy go one better and learn to them one guitar then tell me they're not worth listening to man.
list:
Wanton Song
Heartbreaker
In the light
All of my love
houses of the holy
no quarter
achilles last stand
over the hills and far away

ha you won't evn get through Heartbreaker before you turn around and go "oh fuck that"
Page plays a unique scale at a speed you won't believe

Anyone going to try and get a ticket?

lol shitty olden days bands

Fucking Jason Bonham. I would only go if this dude plays drums.

Fucking Paolo Nutini more like. £125 and I've got to put up with that?

I heard Stairway on the radio today. Anybody who says it doesn't rule is a goddamn neo-rockist.

this was posted here Led Zeppelin set to reform but some details are starting to come out:

Tickets costing £125 ($254) will be allocated on a lottery basis through the Ahmettribute.com web site. Billboard.com understands there are no plans to broadcast or commercially release music from the show.

Putting an end to several months of speculation, it was confirmed today (Sept. 13) during a press conference at the O2 that the three surviving members of Led Zeppelin -- Robert Plant, Jimmy Page and John Paul Jones -- would reunite onstage for just the third time in 27 years. The drummer for the evening will be Jason Bonham, son of the band's original drummer John Bonham, who died from a heart attack in 1980.

"This is going to be the largest demand for one show in history," promoter Harvey Goldsmith said today, adding that Zeppelin will play a full two-hour set. "I can only tell from the buzz going around now, but it is really just filtering around the world. I feel there's going to be a huge amount of pressure (on tickets)."

The concert will follow the release of a new Atlantic/Rhino two-disc, 24-track best-of Zeppelin set, "Mothership," due Nov. 13 in the United States.

Word up to J0hn
Also an hour ago I put "In the Light" on a jukebox here in PDX and it sounded fab as all hell

Great, another best of Zeppelin set. Just what the world needs.

i'd rather jack

Maybe if Danny Wilson reformed I'd give a shit.

argh, the second summer of love is here...

Great, another best of Zeppelin set. Just what the world needs.

Yeah, but if it includes "Flash Light" and "Dr. Funkenstein," that could be pretty cool.

sean kingston does an homage to "d'yer maker" on his album - the time is right!!

I just heard on the radio that 20 MILLION people have entered the ticket lottery.

ZEPPPELLLIN FUCK YEAHHHHHARRRRRRRRRRRRGHHHHHHHHH

So, anyone's been to the show tonight?

Is it true they played a Spice Girls cover?

Report please!

(this message may contain a lame attempt at spreading fake rumors)

Oh, it's not finished yet, apparently. The NME's liveblogging it:

http://www.nme.com/news/led-zeppelin/33075

'Good Times Bad Times'
'Ramble On'
'Black Dog'
'In My Time Of Dying'
'For Your Life'
'Trampled Under Foot'
'Nobody's Fault But Mine'
'No Quarter'
'Since I've Been Loving You'
'Dazed And Confused'
'Stairway To Heaven'
'The Song Remains The Same'
'Misty Mountain Hop'
'Kashmir'
'Whole Lotta Love'
'Rock And Roll'

I listened to Zep II today. And it ruled.

Dud.

You mad.

an awful, awful band.

Led zeppelin fucked a girl with a shark. they also made some totally huge sounding music. also, they made some pretty bad music. seeing as they fucked that girl with the shark,though, they rule.

-- swastikas forever, Wednesday, January 24, 2001 7:00 PM (6 years ago) Bookmark Link

no-one in the office today, i'm putting on II now.

hmmm... from that blog, awesome:

'For Your Life'

"That's not something you get to hear often these days, Led Zeppelin giving a song its live debut."

zeppelin fucking rules

I <3 Mothership disc one

No Levee, No Credibility

I've heard one Daphne & Celeste song once and it had more of an impact on me than all the Zeppelin I've ever heard put together. I still never recognize Stairway to Heaven until 6 minutes in. I'm all for cruising around in battered pickup trucks smoking weed drinking beer and checking out the chicks, but gimme Kid Rock over Zeppelin any day.

good ol' 0tis, bringing a special level of wtf RONG to every thread he ever touched, r.i.p.

the original segment of this thread is a fucking embarassment

classic. I was actually a bigger fan of the some of the later stuff too (Houses of the Holy is my favorite)....

Still maintain that Page is 10x more interesting and influential as a producer than as a guitarist/writer guy

bringing a special level of wtf RONG to every thread he ever touched

Hey, you'd know.

I already argued this on some other thread, but DUD.

>>Has How the West Was Won changed any minds?

I grew up in the '70's and worshiped Zep. When The Song Remains the Same came out I skipped school to see it. It sucked. All those imaginings I had of how much Zep ruled were dashed on the over-blown histronics on Dazed and Confused, I mean God save me,a therimin solo?

I didn't skip school but I saw it with a beautiful girl who wore a hearing aid. Horrible. Boring. A handjob in the front seat of the car would have been better.

How the West Was One was a bit better because it was split over three CDs and you could skip the Dazed and Confused and Moby Dick stuff easier than you could with the vinyl. But it wasn't that much better.

Distinctions now erased by re-release of Song Remains The Same in twice-the-length deluxe and ultra-deluxe pack. "Mothership" comes in two versions. The long one and the really really long one, the latter which includes selections from the Led Zeppelin DVD which plays just like a CD. Of the latter, the best part is the concert from the Albert Hall in '70 which is still two hours and a bit repetitive.

Pagey and Percy are still laboring under the assumption that we really really really like to hear them play the lo-0-o-0-o-n-g-g-g blooz. While I don't always care for it, substantially -- they may be right.

"Immigrant Song" from Long Beach in 71 or 72 still kills as a perfect example of early heavy metal.

Plus, Pagey played obviously out of tune for the '88 TV reunion in honor of Atlantic Records. They played to about a billion, did Kashmir, and you mean to tell me the guy didn't have a backup guitar tuned to DADGAD?

"I'm a lazy sod!"

Classic, but they have this strange power to reduce highly intelligent people to just grunting and going "Yeah! Fucking sick dude!" a lot.

Hey, you'd know.

-- Ned Raggett

lol oasis

jones looks good for a sixty-something dude
http://img.thesun.co.uk/multimedia/archive/00402/snn1107lz682_402646a.jpg

Why do Page & Plant both look like they're kissing someone?

"Stairway to Heaven"

the crowd went into ecstasy while the first notes were being played.

didn't no one there see "Waynes World?!

essentially Queen without a sense of humor, according to this lazy ass BBC journalist:

makes Pete Doherty look like Aled Jones

Stairway:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G_JTMuHOQk

My workmate went and said they rocked it. Sadly the same could not be said for Foreigner.

Bit of Black Dog @ BBC's Newsnight: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11_QgMO05vo

Some good work by the various reviewers:
"the music's deeply celestial importantness"
"conjunction of jittering funk and squealing"
"Their heaviosity has always been the cornerstone"
"It had been a long time, a long lonely, lonely time, and with nothing but rumors of a tour, no one knew for sure when, or if, it would happen again."

yikes @ that Newsnight clip

Why do Page & Plant both look like they're kissing someone?

They're kissing "My Sweet Satan"

"Stairway to Heaven"

the crowd went into ecstasy while the first notes were being played.

It's because they thought they were playing a cover of "Taurus" by Spirit.

thanks for the link, stan

Terrible BBC review, embarrasing.

The BBC review really kind of says nothing, doesn't it?

I wish I'd been there, it must have been an incredible feeling when they got up on stage.

User comment from the Guardian Unlimited review:

Let's get real here: if you understand anything about music, rock and roll of this type is actually p*ss easy to play. It's ain't no Mozart, it ain't Rachmaninoff. Musically, Led Zeppelin, like all rock music, is overhyped, loud, adolescent crap.

The guy in the review pulls out the tired cliche about how "punk" made bands like Zep irrelevant. Ironic that 30 years later, that Zep seem like the true innovators while lame ass no talent punk bands seem so dated. Physical Graffitti could be released today and seem fresh, whereas the Clash's first album is a mere relic.

the Zep-bashing on this thread =wtf

Physical Graffitti could be released today and seem fresh, whereas the Clash's first album is a mere relic.

wau

That should be in the FAQ.

yeah honestly although "old ilm" was pretty nifty for its willingness to not pay heed to a lot of old recieved wisdom that's really kinda tainted by its being fucking RONG like 99% of the time

Just one man's opininon, folks. I liked the Clash in high school, but that's about where it ended.

the Zep-bashing on this thread = wtf otm

naw bill you're right

hang on, that was the Clash's first album, and you're comparing it with Zeppelin's how manyth? After how many years of being "in de biz"?

Just because you were basing it on "innovation" that's all.

If this thread is an example of the good-old-days ILM, then fuck old ILM!

Mark, not only innovation, but also the freshness of each to my ears, and how it would play today. My comparison still holds with LZI

Maybe so, but how about Physical Graffiti vs. London Calling?

guys how about robert plant's voice on black dog now sounds like someone trying to start an engine in cold weather?

that black dog clip seriously sounds like the vocal equivalent to those youtube "(x) shreds" videos.

Jsnot-that's a much fairer comparison, granted.

I hating picking on the Clash, but I just really reject the tired old saw about "punk coming along to kill the dinosaurs like Yes, the Who, Sabbath,Zep" or whoever you want to put in there, when I would much rather, today, listen to those bands over any of the so-called dinosaur killers. It's just lazy criticism. And to have this pinhead put it in his review of the Zep show, which I would have killed to have been at, is a joke.

I just really reject the tired old saw
Meet the new saw
Same as the old saw

It's just lazy criticism.

That. Cannot. Be. Stressed. Enough.

zep and the clash are both pretty much unimpeachable, and none of either of their albums would sound original or forward-thinking if they were released today.

Presence vs Colour By Numbers.

thats such a weird thing to say, anyway--how on earth would a heavy, bluesy hard-rock/proto-metal album released in 2007 seem "fresh"??

guys how about robert plant's voice on black dog now sounds like someone trying to start an engine in cold weather?

The intro sounds more like a cold engine to me.

The BBC review isn't bad. It's not a slobber -- which is par for the course for a lot of them today, I suspect.

C'mon now, this is funny. Pagey'd have to be a pretty dour guy not to laugh.

Jimmy Page's double-necked axe being wheeled out for guitar shop favourite Stairway To Heaven.

And this is a nice thing to say:

And Page - Mephistophelean with his black frock coat and explosion of white hair - is an equally commanding presence, an incongruous gardening accident which forced the show to be rescheduled notwithstanding.

>>how on earth would a heavy, bluesy hard-rock/proto-metal album >>released in 2007 seem "fresh"??

By doing an A/B listening test with just about any stoner rock CD released in the last four years. (There'd be a couple exceptions not worth mentioning for the sake of discussion.) Hey, A/B Zeppelin with the last great white hope -- Wolfmother in 2006. Don't shoot the messenger. At one point every newspaper rockcritic seemed to be into comparing 'em with Zep.

>>how on earth would a heavy, bluesy hard-rock/proto-metal album >>released in 2007 seem "fresh"??

Listen to the fucking music, man. If you think PG is just a heavy, bluesy hard rock/ proto-metal album, I feel bad for you. Then again, you didn't have P-Funk on your Jersey music poll, so I guess I don't care if you think it's weird.

Wolfmother are fine by me; their album was both fierce and funny.

he didn't say it was JUST that, he said it IS that, and it is undeniably at least that

that said, i don't think anybody would confuse physical graffiti for something by a current stoner rock band

this train of thought is weird though, it's like when that jane austen fan submitted austen novels practically verbatim to major publishers, was of course rejected by all of them and then was like "today's editors are philistines!"

newsflash: art exists in context

presence is definitely better than anything the clash ever released.

any male vocalist who sings like his nuts are in a vice gets compared to Plant

Good times.

Bad times.

hahaha

I just really reject the tired old saw about "punk coming along to kill the dinosaurs like Yes, the Who, Sabbath,Zep" or whoever you want to put in there

I do too, but only because the Who cannot be killed.

But those other bands? Feh.

im not really sure you "love music."

i love zeppelin so much. we listened to song remains the same this last weekend and goddamn i forgot how nuts they were, there were parts of dazed and confused where you thought bonham and jones thought they were in james brown's band....page is also such a weird guitar player compared to all the other "guitar heros", he plays way more fucked up,sloppy, strange stuff than hendrix...

but yeah anyway they are sweet. glad to see presence get some love in the live set.

and zep had so much more variety and range than stoner rock bands...i mean it's not like QOTSA or wolfmother or whoever is going to have "in the light" or "down by the seaside" on their record.

Thanks Matt, that's a major part of the point I was trying to make, no matter how inartfully. I think those kinds of songs would sound good even released today. Plus, with Page's production I find something new in these songs each time I listen to them.

also that BBC thing is kind of full of shit, it's not my understanding that zep was the "key inspiration" for spinal tap, i thought it was those troggs studio outtakes ("sprinkle some fookin' feeery dooost onnit!" that started the whole thing.

and spinal tap was def. more metal as metal. i'd put it at bands like rainbow and deep purple morese than zep. although maybe when nigel plays the guitar w/the violin that's def. dazed and confused...but you can't really avoid zep.

i know that stonehenge was a direct rip on sabbath, when they toured w/a stonehenge set and had to end up leaving it out in the parking lot cuz they got downgraded to smaller venues and it wouldn't fit.

(bill those songs still sound awesome, and i can't believe i actually compared zep to fuckin' WOLFMOTHER of all things, jeez talk about a-squad vs. c-squad)

Probably right, I think the Spinal Tap guys were poking fun in admiration though, Gillan and Iommi would be the first to tell you the Stonehenge thing was ridiculous. And Harry Shearer spent time with the band Saxon to prep for his role, they must not have had too much trouble with it. When he gets stuck in that pod on stage it's fucking hilarious.

xpost

>>that said, i don't think anybody would confuse physical graffiti for >>something by a current stoner rock band

Most people simply don't listen to stoner rock bands. If you're in the genre and you can sell and/or giveaway 5,000 copies, you've gone platinum.

Interestingly, two all girl bands released Zep copy records this year. Lez Zeppelin, who even got Eddie Kramer to produce them, and Zepparella.
I have to laugh when I see the Lez Zep CDs right next to the new Led Zeppelin stuff at BestBuy.

And who can forget Dread Zeppelin?

I think Plant still has an amazing voice, but they should have just knocked Black Dog down a step for him, it was ridiculous. It reminds me of the Black Crowes tour for the Southern Harmony & Musical Companion when Robinson's voice was ALREADY shot out. Robinson still tried to hit the notes and mainly came up short - Plant's older and wiser so tries to kind of get around it but it doesn't seem like he thought about it that much.

Why do Page & Plant both look like they're kissing someone?

They're kissing "My Sweet Satan"

-- Alex in NYC, Tuesday, December 11, 2007 3:30 PM (5 hours ago) Bookmark Link

lol!

Spinal Tap is clearly an amalgam - there's direct references/parodies of at least a dozen specific bands (many already mentioned - but also David St. Hubbins clearly modelled on Sweet lead singer, and giant skeleton skull = Maiden/Eddy)

is it just me who thinks led zep's music is too perfectly produced and lacks bass?

wouldn't a perfectly produced album have adequate bass?

man. I'm rilly having a hard time finding "For Your Life" on YT. I wanna hear that BAD. WEA be wastin' no time…

Matt H: are you at all like me and wish that the band played only deep cuts, like "Four Sticks," "Walter's Walk," the two funk toonz on Presence, "South Bend Suarez" and the almighty "Carouselambra"?

"wouldn't a perfectly produced album have adequate bass?"

too pristinely produced then.

mr. x -- i guess i think those records sound great, not anteceptic but just great rock records, so yep the bass is fine for me.

veronica -- YES! but even doing a couple off presence is pretty bold in a way, so that's cool

"Stairway to Heaven"

the crowd went into ecstasy while the first notes were being played.

It's because they thought they were playing a cover of "Taurus" by Spirit.

-- Sara Sara Sara, Tuesday, December 11, 2007 2:46 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Link

woah I'd never heard that before, def. is the into riff to stairway, crazy...but i think it stands to Jay-Z's "You made it a hot line/ I made it a hot song" defense.

i mean it's not like QOTSA or wolfmother or whoever is going to have "in the light" or "down by the seaside" on their record.

god bless zep but i hope no one else has 'down by the seaside' on their record

I think Plant still has an amazing voice, but they should have just knocked Black Dog down a step for him, it was ridiculous.

they did. it's a full step below the original. maybe another step? two steps? that'd certainly sludge it up, and that wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing.

"they are one of the very few bands that could make absofuckinglutely ANYTHING rock: calypso, english pussy folk, black magic, disco, cavestomp, whatever."

where kin i git summa that english pussy folk???????

Plant was doing "Black Dog" on his 2005 tour, and I think they played it slightly lower then too. and yeah, absolutely nothing wrong with that.

hahaha man .. this gig is all over YouTube now (although yeah, where the heck is "For Your Life"??) .. it is like a game of cat and mouse with Warners

dude I just watched the "Stairway" clip and got chills. I can't imagine what it would have been like to be at the gig.

worth saying again: some really strange zep hating up there.

no doubt. zeppelin is beyond classic and dud

who's surprised tho...

zep rules

zeppelin is beyond classic and dud

hay i fixed that for you, okay ^

funny funny. seriously, they're about the only band i can't relate to people not being into. i get why people don't like yes, i get why people don't like the velvet underground and de la soul and televison and joy division and the dead and whoever. zeppelin though? it's just so obvious they fucking rule

If you ask me they were the archetypal American teen boy fantasy band -- music for young lads to cruise around in battered pickup trucks smoking weed drinking beer and checking out the chicks. Or at least the soundtrack to which they *fantasize* about doing things like that...

All the while feeling vaguely smug and intellectual because of the Crowley and Tolkien references. Bleargh.

Fred's not totally wrong though -- the Zep had their occaisional moment, but they're still overrated beyond belief. Early Black Sabbath could have them for breakfast!

-- Nicole, Tuesday, September 26, 2000 7:00 PM (7 years ago) Bookmark Link

I'm not into them.

For every colossal riff to enjoy for a few minutes there's always a hours of dull indulgent sludge - and, though the recent gig showed some restraint, it still looks like the chaff was there in spades with the wheat still few and far between.

Apart from the megaton riffage though, what have you got? The songs themselves are pretty poor constructions, usually somebody else's uncredited construction, the lyric suck.

Their attempts at ska were even more embarrassing than The beatles, and doing a Rosie and the originals 'tribute' is never a good idea.

I wonder how all those critics reclaiming them would have felt if they'd had to sit through moby dick and then have it followed by a structureless 25 minute dazed and confused. It's notable that none of the critics seemed to have been aware of the band in the 70s or make comparisons with 70s rock - to claim that somehow punk failed because one or two of these dinosaurs are still around misses the point that its only one or two and they've shaped up a fair bit.

Nicole OTM.

In my high school, LZ were seen as "alternative".

oh, it's just I have no enthusiasm for Zep. If I had a CD of theirs, it'd just never get played in preference to *anything* else. And it's not even because of ubiquity, I'd say I know about three of their songs anything like "well". I did hear "Kashmir" and thought it fine. "Whole lotta" is OK, "STairway" I can live without, "Rock & roll" is funny, and umm, oh that jamaica one, come ON now!

Anyroad, from up there:

And this is a nice thing to say:

And Page - Mephistophelean with his black frock coat and explosion of white hair - is an equally commanding presence, an incongruous gardening accident which forced the show to be rescheduled notwithstanding.

No it's not, its awful. Try saying it! It's clunky and you have to read it three times to work out where the inflections are! (nothing to do with the content stated there)

Apart from the megaton riffage though, what have you got

Well quite a lot actually. Limiting LZ to megaton riffage is like dismissing the entire Beatles catalogue because you didn't like Sgt.Peppers. Sure, lots of people think of Whole Lotta Love, Black Dog, Immigrant Song, Heartbreaker as typical LZ, but there's plenty of folk and raga chucked in to the standard blues-based riffing. Maybe it kinda gets levelled out in concert, I dunno.

one or two of these dinosaurs are still around misses the point that its only one or two and they've shaped up a fair bit

erm aren't they ALL still around? Genesis, ELP, Yes, Pink Floyd have been, or are, still active in the 2000s.

I'm kind of on the fence about Zep, but I agree that Black Sabbath were streets ahead.

STILL around?

Reunioning after decades of inactivity does not count. Especially for *only a five song set"...

But 'around' means more than just gigging and recording. Actively promoting back catalogue/DVDs and shit is as much 'around' as someone making new music. Back in the 70's, when we rolled up the carpet behind us and even Beatles LPs would go out of print, I think people probably believed that, if killed off by something newer, 'old' stuff like the prog behemoths might simply go away for good.

which Beatles LPs went out of print?!?!!

Various. What I kind of meant was 'out of stock' - they were never officially unavailable, but there were periods when you couldn't find them anywhere. I seem to recall 'With The..' and 'For Sale'.

After Wish You Were Here came out the only Floyd recds you would routinely find in even quite large recd shops were WYWH, Dark Side Of The Moon, and the first two, packaged together as A Nice Pair. Stuff like Obscured By Clouds and Atom Heart Mother could be quite hard to get hold of. I guess the recd companies thought 'why would anyone want to buy an out-of-date recd when you can buy their NEW one?'.

i'd give blood to sit through "moby dick" and then have it followed by a structureless 25 minute "dazed and confused." same goes for sitting through a structureless 25 minutes of "halleluhweh" and then a half an hour of "augmn." i once sat through an hour of structureless jackie-o-motherfucker opening for an hour and a half long set of long trad gras och stoner structureless jams. i stood through the terrastock set ghost took fragments of to collage together the half hour structureless jam on their last studio album. i didn't mind at all

I kind of like the live versions of Dazed and Confused I've heard. It's kind of like their Dark Star.

I'm pro-Zep on this thread, I don't want to get into a Sabbath-Zep thing, because Sabbath is my musical ideal, and Zep will only suffer in comparison if I get into that.

Aside from which they had very little in common, aside from configuration and time/place.

yeah, i don't know. i listen to them both all the time and can't get how people could love one and hate the other. that seems like bullshit to me, but whatever, maybe it's like a beatles vs. stones thing

That was kind of what I was trying to say. This thread seemd to be headed there, and that discussion isn't necessary.

And I do think they had a lot in common, at least if you talk to the members of both bands. The Sab guys were influenced by Zep (compare communication breakdown and paranoid) and Bonham was a Sabbath fanatic. There is some tape that supposedly exists of them jamming together.

Are you serious? There's a Robert Plant interview from a couple of years ago where he totally disses them, and bristles at the fact that Zep gets mentioned in the same breath with them. As far as he's concerned the two bands didn't have much of anything in common, other than PLant and Bonham being from Birmingham.

there's plenty of interviews where plant disses zeppelin to and cringes at the mention of "stairway," the prickly bastard. the riffage, occultism, fantasy schtick, heaviness, screeching vocalists, the ballsy bluesiness all are pretty reasonably comparable

What about that boot with LZ and Fairport Convention laying it down at the Whiskey? that'd be dope to hear…

it's funny i would have totally agreed with sabbath being leagues ahead until i downloaded every ozzy era sabbath album to make my quiet fictional black sabbath album mixtape.

now i definitely thing that zeppelin was more successful albumwise on the whole.

also, a friend pointed out to me that bill ward is sort of awkward as a drummer sometimes, he was saying he sometimes wished ian paice from deep purple was in sabbath and now that bugs me abt sabbath.

but they are all GREAT BANDS so who cares, it's all good.

the only thing that i def. can see about zeppelin is i have friends that love them but wish hey had a different signer. i like plant but i can understand not liking him.

just like i think u.s. maple is like the greatest band, most important rock band in the world of the last 15 years but i dig that some people just don't like them.

I'm aware of the Plant interviews, which are retarded. The Sab dudes are gracious when they talk about Zep. Bonham was the best man at Iommi's wedding.

The best man?

I get where folks are coming from on the epics and noodling around and stuff - but all that's okay when a band gives me "Communication Breakdown" and "Black Dog" and "Rock'n'Roll" and "Whole Lotta Love" and etc..

Dunno, I wasn't there.

i like the epics and noodling!

re: Ward…love him, but those breaks on "fairies Wear Boots" are the ne plus ultra of trainwrecks…

could be that Sab was just too "brummie" for Plant…

Ward's work on Vol.4 (esp. Tomorrow's Dream and Supernaut) should more than make up for whatever his shortcomings as perceived by you on that song are. A fantastic drumming album all the way through. Ward's a fucking mensch.

Plant can fuck himself.

"just like i think u.s. maple is like the greatest band, most important rock band in the world of the last 15 years but i dig that some people just don't like them."

really? i've never even heard them. maybe i should.

i love them so much. but i'm a total fanboy of them, i'm not objective about them. also, part of it was seeing them live and how amazing it was for me at a certain point in my life. al johnson is one of a kind.

but you might like them, i'm kind of suprised you haven't heard them actually.

led zeppelin have, like, 2 or 3 songs on their studio albums that are more than ten minutes long. out of, like, 60+ songs. most are 3/4/5/6 minutes in length. their average song time is probably 4.5 or 5 minutes long. plenty of time for noodles. but they were actually fairly economical when it came to song-writing. they didn't overstay their welcome in most cases. live they could be bloated, but that's a different story.

i will check them out, matt. i like fanboy declarations. they make me curious.

It should be noted that the riff during "For Your Life" during the "Do it when you wanna!" section has always been amazing.

US Maple were very fun live when I saw them (granted that was like 10 years ago)

here's a trailer for a new US maple doc that this dude has been working on...some of it looks a little cheesy but still it's got some cool footage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MX4Dm7c-8aU&feature=related

It should be noted that the riff during "For Your Life" during the "Do it when you wanna!" section has always been amazing.

I always liked the way Masters of Reality ripped off the riff during the "fake it with all your might" part for their "Kill The King". And 5ive Style rips off part of the main riff for the 1st song on their 1st album.

What about that boot with LZ and Fairport Convention laying it down at the Whiskey? that'd be dope to hear…

-- Veronica Moser

oh man, YSI??

"ONE NIGHT IN L.A. - The Legendary Jam
Between Fairport and Zeppelin, September 4, 1970"
By Hugh Jones

I am writing this on September 4, 1996-twenty six years to the day after Led Zeppelin and Fairport Convention both played concerts that are still regarded as some of the most exciting and enduring performances of their career. I've been listening to the music recorded on this day in 1970 all week, and there's no doubt that its endurance and reputation is deserved. Here are two innovative, young English bands caught at respective peaks, both early in their careers, and both caught up in the heady atmosphere of rock stars on tour in the vast, welcoming wilds of the United States.

For Led Zeppelin, it was on their sixth tour of North America in less than two years, and they faced a crowd of some 20,000 people at the Los Angeles Forum. In another part of the city, Fairport played the first evening of a three-night stand at Doug Weston's Troubadour club, to a far more intimate gathering of only a few hundred. It was only their second trip to America, but a return engagement in a club that had seen the triumphant culmination of their first tour earlier that year.

Both performances were captured for posterity on audio tape. At the Forum, not one but two bootleggers were in action, unbeknownst to the band or Peter Grant. Both were using high quality reel-to-reel tape decks-one stereo and the other mono. Both recordings have been circulated and released as bootleg albums and CDs over the years, and the better of the two-the stereo one-made rock and roll history as one of the first and most successful bootleg albums, Live On Blueberry Hill. It is still available today, now in a form vastly upgraded from the original, and it surely stands as one of the best selling and most widely known bootlegs in rock.

Over at the Troubadour, Fairport's performances were being captured on professional 8-track recording equipment by engineer John Wood, under the auspices of the band's producer and mentor Joe Boyd. The resulting recordings were eventually edited down to become the 1976 album Live At The L.A. Troubadour, released only in England, and then revamped for release in the USA in 1986 to create a second album-with some variations in material-called House Full.

Blueberry Hill and House Full stand right up among the very best recordings by both of these bands. What's ironic is that a unique combination of these musicians also occurred on the night of September 4, 1970, and this too was captured on tape by John Wood and Joe Boyd. The Night That Zeppelin Jammed With Fairport has been talked about for years, and the recording made-which has never seen the light of day, bootleg or otherwise-more or less constitutes the Holy Grail to collectors of both bands. While the tape supposedly resides deep in a vault and we may never get to hear it, our imaginations can be fueled with help from the various anecdotes related by eyewitnesses and participants in the event.

Following their triumphant two and a half hour show at the Forum, all four members of Led Zeppelin and Peter Grant showed up at the Troubadour in time to catch Fairport's second set. Though Joe Boyd does not recall Bonham being present, Fairport drummer Dave Mattacks has described Bonzo's trashing of his drum set at the Troubadour jam on more than one occasion, so we can assume that perhaps Boyd was so distracted by Peter Grant that he didn't realize Bonham was playing!

The musicians changed around a bit from song to song, Richard Thompson playing a Les Paul and Page using Simon Nicol's hollow body electric Gibson L5, strung with heavy gauge strings that caused him some consternation and prompted him to remark afterwards, ". . . it was like trying to play railway lines!" (Jimmy has always been known to use 'super slinky' light gauge strings).

Dave Mattacks not only got to hear how his drum kit sounded from the crowd, he had the dubious distinction of having to repair it and replace the heads after Bonzo gave it a sound thrashing! Simon Nicol recalls that "Mattack's bass drum had been totally solid the whole night, but I saw it jump forward three or four inches on Bonzo's first strike!"

Indulging in some tech-talk about drum tuning, Mattacks says, "When John played my drums there was very little distinction between my three toms. And although he was playing very hard, which does make a difference, my drums were (tuned) way too low. The drums just sounded soggy. I remember getting off stage, hearing him play and thinking, 'Oh, they don't sound very good.' He was beating the shit out of them; he played great but the drums didn't sound too hot. I got back up and it was my lovely Super Classics-heads all dented!"

With various combinations of musicians including Plant on vocals and Jones on bass, the heavy metal folk rock combo played a handful of tunes, including the jig that challenged Page and some blues. Common ground was found with then-popular rock chestnuts like "Hey Joe" and "Morning Dew," Elvis Presley's "Mystery Train" and "That's Alright Mama" and Fairport's own rendition of the traditional folk tune "Banks Of The Sweet Primroses."

And the mobile recording equipment was rolling the whole time, by some accounts capturing as much as three hours of music!

As legend has it, the party continued on even after the Fairport/Zeppelin jam. Nearby after hours bar Barney's Beanery was the site of a drinking contest involving Fairport's Dave Pegg, Bonham and Janis Joplin, who no doubt was found hanging out at Barneys.

misty mountain hop is way 2 fonkay

Reunion concert goodness:

http://walhallahereicome.blogspot.com/

OK THIS WOMAN I WORK WITH'S DAD IS THE HEAD OF MUSIK AT BESTBUY AND SHE WENT TO THE SHOW. SAT IN FRONT OF PAUL MCCARTNEY, IN THE SAME ROW AS DAVE GROHL.

HAD "HIGH TEA" AND THEN ATTENDED THE SHOW WITH FUCKING RICHARD COLE, WHO APPARENTLY IS A FRIEND OF HER STEPMOM'S

i'm a "little" jealous

"he was saying he sometimes wished ian paice from deep purple was in sabbath"

pretty much every drummer after Ward for Ozzy were, like, Paice's little bitch boys…

Ha -- so I'm searching ILM for a LZ thread (since I'm trying, unsuccessfully, to D/L some Zep via nefarious means), and after clicking over here I run headlong into M@tt H's spot-on love of US MAPLE just minutes after I finished writing about a CD featuring ex-Maples! (And only a month after the CD was released, too!)

Back on topic -- are they going to re-remaster the catalog, or are the latest versions of the albums otay? I ask because I currently own NOTHING by them -- dudes fell victim to my high-school anti-classic-rock phase 15+ years ago (sigh), and even after I thawed out (still thawing, BTW), never bothered to pay $$$ for any of their stuff, since up until recently I lived with folks that got the Led out all over the place.

I'll go ahead and say 'dud' again. Dud.

Also, dudleys should go soak in a pickle jar.

Not sure about a remastered catalog, but considering the louder sound of the Motherload set, I kind of hope they don't. My advice with Zep is to buy used vinyl and then download. Those packages are nice and the vinyl sounds great, plus since they solid a kajillion albums it's easy to find.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqrbqkyTu3k&feature=PlayList&p=7E0D857131F39E25&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL&index=1

Jimmy's gnarly solo

John's ridiculous drumming

Posted via the official FB page six hours ago. Any guesses?

https://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-snc6/216964_379888095416968_776403993_n.jpg

hmmm

"Surprise! We recorded this in 1972 and have been holding for just the right time."

Lock thread.

Rumor has it they're releasing the 2007 reunion show.

BORING

I'm finally reading through that Uncut (or whatever) special that came out a couple of months back and has been floating around my bedroom ever since. Must get back to listening to some of the lps after reading overviews of them in there. I don't think I got around to getting the last couple and that makes at least Presence sound like it should be interesting.

Do love the first US tour live sets the most though I think.

Apart from 'Achilles Last Stand' and 'Nobody's Fault But Mine', Presence does very little for me. I've given that record so many chances over the years...

Kinda like "Hots On For Nowhere". "Tea for One" is good, but I liked it better the first time when they called it "Since I've Been Loving You"

(at least Zep plagiarized themselves for once instead of somebody else)

They really should have taken a rest after Physical Graffiti, but I'm guessing that this wasn't an option due to the band being such a massive cash cow at the time. It was clear that Plant's heart wasn't really in Presence (and of course it wouldn't have been at that time, with him being wheelchair-bound and wanting to recuperate everything), and of course In Through The Out Door suffered from Jimmy Page being smacked up... maybe if they'd been forced to take things easy after Physical Graffiti, we may have had a Led Zeppelin for several more years.

Apart from 'Achilles Last Stand' and 'Nobody's Fault But Mine'

Ha, that's like half the album.

I never listen to "Presence," but I've got no problem with "In Through the Out Door."

Indeed, but looking over the Zeppelin albums prior to Presence there's very little I would 'throw away' (Maybe 'D'Yer Maker' from Houses Of The Holy which I've never liked and always found a bit corny), and then all of a sudden here's a Zeppelin album which I could easily do without half of; it's quite a drop in form!

It would be weird if they had made a post-Bonham album with a straighter drummer a la the Who post-Moon, although In Through the Out Door is almost what I'd imagine a Bonham-free Zep record to sound like anyway, at least in terms of the songs.

And yet his playing on the album is killer ...

Was Keney Jones a straight drummer? I kind of thought he had some of Moon's idiosyncracy as a drummer.

some of the wildness in playing during the Small Faces days at least.

He was pretty tamed (sober?) by the time he was in the Who.

I've always thought of Jones as more of a Bonham-type player myself. particularly on stuff like Afterglow.

but yeah he got tamer as he got older.

Jones stopped drinking on the Who's '82 tour, leaving Entwistle as the lone drinker in the band (Townshend had dried out, and Daltrey never partied on tour). His playing at that point, unfortunately, was free of much of what made him so distinctive in the Faces.

I will be all over this

That's awesome, but I sort of really don't want to see that in theater next to Zep fans.

Amusing that this one-off performance from the band in post-middle age, decades after its dissolution and minus its iconic, irreplaceable drummer, will surely be better than "The Song Remains the Same."

I'll pass.

Profound disappointment when word started to leak out that it was this reunion gig and not some awesome set from the 70s (deluxe editions with injection-molded abs mudshark)

(Acrylonitrile butadiene styrene, not a shark with a rippling six pack)

Amusing that this one-off performance from the band in post-middle age, decades after its dissolution and minus its iconic, irreplaceable drummer, will surely be better than "The Song Remains the Same."

U MAD. Would muuuuuch rather see a theatrical re-release of TSRTS.

So, I'm going with a friend to see Celebration Day in the theater tomorrow night. I'm intrigued enough that I'd like to see it with a better soundsystem than I have at home. The bootlegs sounded pretty good, after all.

Nobody else is going on the one night it'll be in theaters? I'm a little surprised.

I'm probably going to go - I've got a ton of work that I really ought to devote my evening to, but it's only one night and it's Zep. Just why did they pick tonight?!

(ps the Stones are doing the same thing tomorrow, which I really can't do either. Grrr.)

It does seem like a random date. I get that it's not a weekend night, but still it's odd.

considered doing this for my birthday but had better options

happy birthday Shakey Mo!

thx

Woo! Front row all to myself! I never get why nobody ever sits here, especially for something like this. Only thing it's bad for imo is subtitles.

Have fun! I'm not seeing it till 9 tonight.

It's well worth it. It's a bit weird at first, there's no dicking around and it's straight into these old dudes hammering it out onstage. But you get used to it. The epics worked best - Time Of Dying is great, No Quarter even better. Kashmir is spectacular.

Mostly I was thinking just how good Jones is - major advantage of seeing this in the cinema and getting all that lovely bass. Jason is having such a great time. Page is such an old woman. Plant, well he's really figured out how to live. It's his band; it's always been his band.

Making the audience laugh: Jimmy gurning at the start of Since I've Been Loving You. His teeth are too white, I think is what it is.

Making me laugh: whoever was holding up a 'Carouselambra' sign. I'd've loved it if they'd dropped everything to spontaneously pump that out, but 'twas not to be.

Making me laugh: whoever was holding up a 'Carouselambra' sign. I'd've loved it if they'd dropped everything to spontaneously pump that out, but 'twas not to be.

so awesome

I'm going to look out for that sign.

should add 00s Jimmy Page to list of men/old lesbians

http://disasteronheels.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/quaker.gif

jpj looked pretty good

Just back from Chicago screening. So much fun, very good editing I thought. I liked that there were no frills -- just the concert. Really, at two hours there's not room for much else. "Nobody's Fault But Mine" and "For Your Life" were my faves.

I was trying to make out that sign, but missed that it was "Carouselambra". The only unrepresented album!

The bass sound was a little rough for me, but I blame that on the theater, not the production. The subwoofers were probably just cranked up for all those rilly cool explosions that normally screen.

also hard to make out what was said a couple times. I have no idea what the hell Jimmy said at the end there. and after one song near thend it sounded like Plant said "how did you like that, Dave?" (or wait, was it "Paul"? well either way, who would they be)

This was so much fun. Totally, utterly, worth seeing. Jimmy got all sloppy and slow as the show went on, John Paul Jones was stunningly good, Jason looked like he was going to cry over and over again, and Robert adapted to the change in his vocal range by selling the lyrics better instead of using the high notes as a form of emoting.

The early run of "In My Time Of Dying", "For Your Life" and "Trampled Under Foot" was definitely the highpoint for me. Though Jason killed on "Misty Mountain Hop".

Totally agree on all points re: individual performances. Bonham was kicking ass. super touching moment when Plant gives him the shout-out after I think "Nobodys Fault" and the crowd just goes nuts, Jason rises to acknowledge them, pulls up a sleeve revealing the tattoo of his dad's run and looks up to the rafters

There were two or three moments of mid-song applause in my theater, the most enthusiastic after Plant belts the "OOOOOH"s mid-Kashmir. He really did nail that. But I also think it kinda took something out of his voice for the remaining few songs.

Page seemed like he was having trouble getting the theremin to work. and the turnaround from guitar solo to main riff in "Dazed" was all kindsa messed up. (tho he did get applause in the theater after the bow section.)(but you knew that was coming)

I had no intention of buying this next month but I'm seriously reconsidering after the theater experience. Might not get the video but likely will get the cd. It's quite an end cap to their hallowed run.

I had assumed that this would be playing late nights at least for a few weeks. Is tonight really the only chance I have to see this on the big screen? And I have to go to ALBANY?

I thought it was only playing yesterday worldwide (it's "Celebration Day", not weeks, after all), so jump at the chance to see it today even if it's in Albany.

There appear to be a few showings in the UK on Sunday.

The Stones thing tonight, though, is a one-off simulject.

Ugh can't do it.

Saw this last night and all its wonder of digital satellite transmission - sound sucked and the show had to be restarted twice. I may have gotten a free movie ticket out of it, but dang the theater needs a faster internet pipe or something like this shouldn't be shown. Even had a Windows OS screen and a stopped video file control panel up for a while. Lotsa pissed off Zeppelin fans until sound was turned up correctly.

Went into this with low expectations after hearing a few of the boots from dimeadozen.org. But man I changed my mind after the 'Black Dog' 'In My Time of Dying' 'For Your Life' 'Trampled Under Foot' run of songs. Double yes to everyone above - JPJ performance was sublime, Pagey is great up until 'Dazed and Confused' onwards (damn his guitar tone just rules so hard), Plant is an old woman, and Jason is just as good as his dad. I'll have to get this in some format just for the 'For Your Life' performance - such a highlight.

I don't particularly care about Led Zeppelin but went last night to the Celebration Day screening because my boyfriend is a crazy diehard nerd fan. Saw this at the worst possible theater in Philadelphia (of course), but I thought it was OK. There were some glitches in the transmission (sounds like it was common at many screenings) and the sound originally was fairly low. But once they cranked it up, it felt more cohesive. I didn't mind much of the editing, but a lot of the effects and aesthetic choices were pretty corny.

Got this on Blu Ray tonite. Fantastic! Though the tinny synth on "Kashmir" made me wish they'd dug up the old Mellotron. Page is particulay awesome in this. Such a different energy when these guys play the songs as opposed to when Plant & Page did them with other musicians.

I like the drums and the crunchy guitars, the riffs, but I'm sorry - most of Plant's vocals irritate me. There are exceptions, certain songs, but for the most part, no. Not gonna say they're a dud, but they're not worthy of my worship.

Figured bump would be for this: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-led-zeppelin-to-appear-on-letterman-monday-night-20121201,0,4849323.story

I'd be more excited if they were playing instead of sitting on a couch.

http://www.cfnews13.com/content/news/articles/ap/2012/12/02/Letterman_up_for_jabs_with_Kennedy_Center_Honors/_jcr_content/contentpar/articleBody/image.img.jpg

Hahahaha

Who's the black dude and the woman next to him?

Buddy Guy and dancer Natalia Makarova.

http://www1.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/John+Paul+Jones+35th+Kennedy+Center+Honors+UnWjoEY3bEDl.jpg

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2012/12/02/article-0-164F9586000005DC-869_634x409.jpg

Clinton inquiring about No Quarter chord voicings

I would see this version of the band.

hillary is the sandy denny of U.S. foreign policy

JPJ turning into Lance Henriksen there.

10 years drone

For some reason I thought this was given only to Americans, but looking back I guess not. It does look like lately they've been throwing in a string of British rock royalty. Macca, Daltrey and Townshend, Led Zeppelin...

Kid Rock actively supported Republican Presidential candidate Mitt Romney, we all know that.

So what do you think happened at this weekend's Kennedy Center Honors when Michigan's favorite rock son had a few minutes with President Barack Obama:

"It was nice. I saw the president tonight," he told CNN. "He said, 'I'm still here.' I said, 'No hard feelings.' "

Just to be clear, he was just there (with his mom), not honored.

Mr Obama, who was only seven years old when the band formed in 1968, said that Americans had immediately embraced Led Zeppelin even "when the Brits initially kept their distance"

Is that true? I have no idea.

I mean, I believe Obama was 7.

It's true, to an extent. Zeppelin made its name touring the US. They basically set the standard for arena touring. I want to say the first album was even released in America first, well before the British release.

Though of course critically, the US was infamously not much of a friend:

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/albumreviews/led-zeppelin-i-19690315

Jimmy Page, around whom the Zeppelin revolves, is, admittedly, an extraordinarily proficient blues guitarist and explorer of his instrument's electronic capabilities. Unfortunately, he is also a very limited producer and a writer of weak, unimaginative songs

And this is an album that starts out with "Good Times, Bad Times"!

Limited producer? Weak writer? "around whom Zeppelin revolves?" I guess this is the (one?) perspective of someone coming to the group from the Yardbirds, myopically missing possibly the greatest rock rhythm section of all time.

"an extraordinarily proficient blues guitarist and explorer of his instrument's electronic capabilities. Unfortunately, he is also a very limited producer and a writer of weak, unimaginative song"

lol i've always thought his playing was kind of meh (compared to say Hendrix) and that he really excelled at songwriting & producing!!

Everyone is kind of meh compared to Hendrix. But compared to his contemporaries, Page was pretty great. Sloppy live, but ace in the studio. Also, one of the few guitarists as notable for his acoustic work as for his electric.

i do like his acoustic stuff it's true

i mean, i like it ALL. but i think zep's strength is in their massive, quality song catalog, innovative prodcuction, and a dope ass rhythm section augmenting the riffs -- much more so than Jimmy shredding or whatev

I've never seen that Rolling Stone review. So Plant was "a pretty soul-belter who can do a good spade imitation." Uh...

page is a great guitarist, every bit as good as hendrix, he does a lot of amazing stuff, in terms of layer guitars and overdubs and the whole UK folk side of playing that hendrix doesn't do

I thought it was hilarious to flip through Rolling Stones' recent Led Zep special issue and read the reviews of each album that are drastic rewrites of history for them.

page is a great guitarist, every bit as good as hendrix, he does a lot of amazing stuff, in terms of layer guitars and overdubs and the whole UK folk side of playing that hendrix doesn't do

― U.S. State Department, Office of Rare Psych (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, December 3, 2012 4:09 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hahahahahahahaha

I've never seen that Rolling Stone review. So Plant was "a pretty soul-belter who can do a good spade imitation." Uh...

― Naked webcam celebrity (Dan Peterson), Monday, December 3, 2012 4:07 PM (25 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

You'd be happy to hear Plant's enlightened discussion on the subject, i'm sure

iirc, only the first three records were trashed (and only by John Mendelsohn) in RS. Everything after (untitled) got positive reviews.

That sounds right. amazing it took 3 albums, though.

I want to say that Black Sabbath was sabotaged by Rolling Stone, too, but 1 star reviews for Led Zeppelin is beyond the pale.

page is a great guitarist, every bit as good as hendrix, he does a lot of amazing stuff, in terms of layer guitars and overdubs and the whole UK folk side of playing that hendrix doesn't do

― U.S. State Department, Office of Rare Psych (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Monday, December 3, 2012 4:09 PM (23 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

hahahahahahahaha

― One Way Ticket on the 1277 Express (Bill Magill), Monday, December 3, 2012 3:33 PM (16 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

which part of this is funny bill?

actually i semi-take back the overdubs start, obv hendrix really produced and arranged stuff very cool, but in a different way than page

but the acoustic part of page's playing is very distinct from hendrix and i think v awesome, really the only mainstreaming of the whole 60 uk folk movt, incredible string band, jansch, etc

And Rolling Stone was the ONLY publication that ever really hated them. Try and find another negative review from 1969-74, you can't! Christgau liked them a lot, they got great reviews in Melody Maker, too. But I guess it shows you how much Rolling Stone meant back then that "bad review in Rolling Stone"="critics hate you."

Jimmy Page, around whom the Zeppelin revolves, is, admittedly, an extraordinarily proficient blues guitarist and explorer of his instrument's electronic capabilities. Unfortunately, he is also a very limited producer and a writer of weak, unimaginative songs

So dated!

which part of this is funny bill?

^ all of it. I spit coffee all over my computer screen when i read it.

The only way hendrix and that plagiarist page belong in the same sentence is because of a somewhat similar first name. Otherwise the comparison is laughable.

I want to say that Black Sabbath was sabotaged by Rolling Stone, too, but 1 star reviews for Led Zeppelin is beyond the pale.

― Josh in Chicago, Monday, December 3, 2012 4:49 PM (51 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I would say its about right.

i don't think you really spit coffee all over your screen bill
i'm calling u out

true, i dont drink coffee this late in the day

it's all been a lie :(

are we really doing this again

Agreed, my thoughts are well documented on the issue. I will abstain.

If there's any way Hendrix is comparable to Page it's definitely in the "layers of guitars and overdubs"

yes i recanted that part!

Yeah, that's one reason Page was so sloppy live. He was trying to do a lot at once, which was sort of impossible.

But I guess it shows you how much Rolling Stone meant back then that "bad review in Rolling Stone"="critics hate you."

― Mr. Snrub, Monday, December 3, 2012 4:52 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think Zeppelin, and Page in particular, absolutely loved to play up the "critics hate us!" bit. Zep needed to highlight every difference, however minor, between them and their contemporaries. Since critics generally liked the Who, Hendrix, Cream, and the Jeff Beck group, Page exploited the "we were despised!" angle for all it was worth.

the interview/press mtg footage in How the West Was Won is very illuminating in this respect - lots of questions about where Zep stands in relation to the Beatles, for ex.

ie the press clearly does not understand what Zep is about at all

True, but the mainstream press in the early 70s was as clueless about rock as the mainstream press was in the 50s and 60s. The Beatles were asked where they stand in relation to Elvis, so since the primary (or only) point of reference for mainstream journalists in the 70s was the Beatles, that's what they asked Zep about.

Also, just found out they're going to be on Letterman tonight (being interviewed, not playing).

http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/U.S./660/371/Kennedy%20Center%20Honors_Cala.jpg

who's going to buy the remasters (w/"new" bonus trax)?

Depends how much rare stuff there is. I have this box (Amazon had it on sale for like $50 one day so I jumped at it) but if they were all expanded to 2CD sets with studio leftovers or maybe even previously unreleased live stuff, I might go for 'em.

i might get them just to have the original albums in proper song order on CD (I own the vinyl and the first box set which has great sequencing, but i'd rather hear the records as they were released)

i hope they do vinyl reissues with 1/2 speed stan ricker masters like they did for the mothership box

I have the same box as 誤訳侮辱, and like him I might pony up again depending on the bonus stuff. I have so many amazing bootlegs that I'd love to see cleaned up and authorized.

sorry for posting that kennedy center honors group picture twice...forgot i posted it last night.

Figured bump would be for this: http://www.latimes.com/entertainment/music/posts/la-et-ms-led-zeppelin-to-appear-on-letterman-monday-night-20121201,0,4849323.story

― billstevejim, Saturday, December 1, 2012 7:06 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I'd be more excited if they were playing instead of sitting on a couch.

― EZ Snappin, Saturday, December 1, 2012 7:12 PM (2 days ago) Bookmark

ugh, got all hyped for a second there

it'd be hilarious if they played and paul joined in

all doing a boogie woogie version of the beginning of "no quarter"

Dave asking 'em about "Sonny Boy Williams" - awkward

Was great seeing them on TV goofing and seemingly happy but...why? They didn't hype the new CD/DVD (Dave did) and there was no talk of working together again whether as Zep or something else. So why'd they do this? Curious.

I mean...I would've expected Plant to hop on the first plane to Kashmir after the Kennedy Center stuff was over since he seems the most reluctant to hang around the ghost of LZ. So it was strange seeing them all chummy and stuff. I guess I have
some little spark of hope in me these fuckers will announce something soon haha.

there are to be further reissues? would be much much more excited about new rarities released than a reunion tour...

Robert Plant has a great "can you believe how rich I got doing this shit?" look on his face the entire time. Jimmy Page was pretentious. John Paul Jones was, I dunno, thinking about the sessions he has to do in the valley tomorrow morning or whatever it is he does.

I dunno - they seemed like the same dudes you see in old interviews. Jimmy's not pretentious. He's just flash.

yeah Jimmy's kind of in-his-own-world/eccentric, but I wouldn't call him pretentious.

what are these new bonus tracks/remasters ye speak of

that It Might Get Loud movie was really stupid but Jimmy easily the most likable/goofy/cool of the three

Jimmy said in his Rolling Stone interview that he's remastering the entire catalog and trawling (or trolling, as we may find is the case) the vaults; there is apparently tons of unreleased studio and live recordings that may see the light of day starting next fall/winter.

I just hope St. Louis 1975 finds its way to a remastered format sometime in the future. That bootleg is hot fire.

xp Yeah that movie was ridiculous. And The Edge and Jack White easily waaaay more pretentious than Jimmy Page. I think I could watch an entire docu of Page just talking about music etc. without him playing one lick of guitar.

Best part of that film is him playing "Rumble" on 45, beaming smile from ear to ear and bobbing his head. I'd watch a movie that was just him playing records for the camera.

yeah I had no idea how likeable he was until I saw that doc. -- the rest of it was p much garbage, for sure.

Yeah, it was a really bad documentary but mostly worth it just to watch Page air-guitar to Rumble like a giddy school boy learning his first song.

the thing that really blew me away was that he spent 3/4 of that documentary talking about his life *before* he even joined Led Zeppelin. When it was laid out like that, it was kind of astounding what a rich life, musically, he led.

I actually kind of want to see that now.

it's 100% worth it for jimmy. Edge is okay. White is just kind of, I dunno. I normally like him, and I've heard interviews where he's relaxed and cool but he was embarrassingly pretentious in It Might Get Loud.

Yeah, Jack White came across as completely artificial in the doc. The Edge was mostly "look at me, I might possibly still be relevant!" Page seemed to be the only one who had fine things to say about music and guitar. Also, I love that he's a super-sloppy guitarist and doesn't even try to hide it.

there were parts of Edge that were okay, where he went back to the room where they played their first gig, and some of the early archive footage was p cool

Yeah, The Edge's bits about going back to Dublin where the band formed were kinda cool. The stuff with him hanging around in his practice room playing "Get On Your Boots" a zillion different ways was a drag.

u_u yes

Picked up that When Gods Walked the Earth book again last week and tried to get through it again. It was pretty agreeable if I skipped the second person parts, but then there was an enormous chapter devoted to Aleister Crowley. As far as I can tell, it was completely unnecessary.

I did love, however, that the song they all chose to play together wasn't some guitar wank showdown where they all tried to cut heads with each other. It was "The Weight".

yeah, that was a nice touch.

back on topic, I wonder what other kind of unreleased material Page could possibly dig up in the vaults. if there's stuff like How The West Was Won lying around in a mislabelled shoebox, bring it on I say.

iirc, when the first box was released in 1990, Page said there were literally no unreleased studio recordings, that everything had come out on Coda.

yeah that's what I thought too

that being said more live stuff like HTWWW would be very welcome, love those discs

we need to initiate a worldwide search of abandoned houses, attics, and mislabelled shoeboxes.

just to be sure

the lack of led zep rarities has always been really odd, esp in comparison every other major classic rock band

there are demos and alt versions around. Maybe not all complete, but good enough for an archival release.

He may have said something like that in 1990 because he was still trying to promote a solo career. I bet now that there's a whole generation of new money to be made, Led Zep outtakes will be recovered and released pronto.

I dig HTWWW, but I'm hoping for early-early stuff to come out, like the '68-'69 US shows where they had to pad out their set with things like Spirit's "Fresh Garbage."

i couldn't even imagine, but like what if it's like "oh hai guys did i tell you there was this complete other song we left off of IV"

*Page opens trunk he's been using as a coffee table for 40 years*

"Yeah so about that whole 'we don't have any unreleased studio recordings..."

"Loud" doc is OK, but it's worth it for the scene where the Edge shows Jack White and Jimmy Page how to play "I Will Follow," and you can see in their eyes that they're thinking, "holy shit, I can't believe this guy built the biggest band in the world by doing that."

haha yeah they are totally just humoring him like...oh ok you just chukka chukka this little suspended chord with a delay pedal...yeah..edge...wow...that's neat...good for you

"here's a ball. maybe you'd like to bounce it"

lol

Edge's comeback was, "Yeah, I got the idea from some guy named Jake Holmes. Ever hear of him, Jimmy?"

I wonder how many completed "new" songs there are besides "Swan Song". That and alternate mixes/different takes of things from Physical Graffiti are all I know. Honestly, if they just released an appropriate era live show with each album I'd be stoked.

Physical Graffiti pretty much *was* them clearing the decks aiui. If they'd just recorded a normal single album in 1975 we'd be in for a treat now.

I don't understand why there aren't tons of mint gigs ready for a polish and release though. Like a post facto Bootleg Series. If I was in a band that rich and good - or even just a band - I'd be archiving everything.

I think there are lots of shows, but it's a matter of finding the good ones, and how/if they should be edited. Some of the songs on HTWWW are composites (e.g., "Stairway" is parts of both LA shows, and the mellotron is from a '73 show), so I can imagine it being an arduous undertaking if they wanted to release more shows in the same way.

If they put out the pre-75 from Physical Graffiti and Coda today? Mind blowing.

I bet they have decent live shows from say, 70-71 onward. But Page is a perfectionist, and we all know Jimmy was far from perfect live. Far, far from perfect most nights, especially as the drug use took over like on the 1977 tour. Though the setlist on that tour was mind boggling.

Edge's comeback was, "Yeah, I got the idea from some guy named Jake Holmes. Ever hear of him, Jimmy?"

― and I scream Fieri Eiffel Tower High (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, December 4, 2012 12:45 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and then page was all "jake holmes, was he the guitarist on the song "public image" by public image limited?...oh sorry no that was keith levene"

Like a post facto Bootleg Series

Oh ffs, like there's any other kind. A world where the gigs get leaked in advance, like Tony Blair's speeches. Never use Latin.

Well played.

xp

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDoqk1Ltr8w

^^^one of my fave zep recordings, and, as far as i know, an unreleased outtake. THERE MIGHT BE MORE OUT THERE.

xpost The thing with Page – and to be fair, I base this only on one 45-minute interview with him – is that he only wants to talk about music, and if you want to talk about music he is happy and engaged. He'll talk about mic positioning on Sun recordings and how he tried to replicate that for as long as you'll let him. And he is passionate about it. But the minute you try to talk about the other parts of Zeppelin – basically anything that isn't the music - he shuts down immediately. Brad Tolinski's book of interviews is well worth getting for anyone who wants to read Page talking about making music.

But the minute you try to talk about the other parts of Zeppelin – basically anything that isn't the music - he shuts down immediately.

Doesn't wanna incriminate himself, innit.

Never mind studio trickery, I want to know about his grooming secrets. To hear Des Barres tell it, he was the Brian Wilson of rock hair.

Eh, he'll have to compete with Bryan Ferry, who actually credits his hair stylist on each album.

Ha that's right, but then it's Ferry's stylist he'd be competing with.

Edge's comeback was, "Yeah, I got the idea from some guy named Jake Holmes. Ever hear of him, Jimmy?"

― and I scream Fieri Eiffel Tower High (Tarfumes The Escape Goat), Tuesday, December 4, 2012 12:45 PM (17 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

and then page was all "jake holmes, was he the guitarist on the song "public image" by public image limited?...oh sorry no that was keith levene"

― U.S. State Department, Office of Rare Psych (upper mississippi sh@kedown), Tuesday, December 4, 2012 2:03 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

So bummed Jake didn't prevail in his "Dazed and Confused" plagiarism lawsuit earlier this year. The evidence that Page nicked it is overwhelming. Holmes played "Dazed" when he opened for the Page-era Yardbirds in 1967, after which it became a Yardbirds concert staple. Their live recording made in '67-'68, Cumular Limit, credits Holmes as the sole songwriter.

god who cares, by the time Zep got through Dazed & Confused it was basically just a jumping off point for 30-minute improvs

but then I am not big on authorial claims in general

AP Carter stole all his songs too etc

i was just reading a book on the history of blues, and obviously one of zep's big ripoffs was "you shook me" by willie dixon...but as it turns out...guess who was sort of renowned for taking songs that had been floating around in the blues scene for a long time, writing them down and copywriting them as his own?....mr. willie dixon!

that scamp

It's different when you're talking ancient blues and folk songs that have been handed down for centuries, and some enterprising bluesman from 1920 recorded and popularized it and applied for copyright. But "Dazed" was an all-new song and the Zep version, including the 30-minute improvs, are built on the same original bassline (the song's most distinctive attribute), rhythm, lyrical themes, and title.

How did he lose the plagiarism suit then?

pretty sure Jake Holmes did not invent the phrase "Dazed and Confused" nor it's lyrical themes fwiw. rhythms are not copyrightable. descending bassline = eh isn't this how Page won the lawsuit, by changing enough of it and the melody?

but in general my opinion is no it is EXACTLY the same as "ancient folk and blues songs handed down for centuries" - it is the exact same process. this is what musicians do, it is what they have always done, obsessing over who originated what strikes me as fundamentally misunderstanding how music works. imho.

what portion of zep's profit on the recording would have gone to holmes had he been given a songwriting credit?

you take something you love and change it a little, that's the basic creative process behind all music. this is how things evolve, it's how you get new musical forms/songs/whatever.

xp

I'd never heard it before that I can recall. It's obvious to us that Page was ripping from it, but it's not exactly the same or even clearly the same song, and I doubt it's like Holmes was at all prejudiced by it.

And I say that on the basis of zero knowledge of the guy or his life.

is there any way we could work the Beatles vs Stones, Pitchfork, and the ethics of filesharing into this discussion?

xp I've met him IRL. His daughter lives next door to one of my friends.

Guitar music's dead anyway, so why not?

not that it matters, but Holmes is successful in his own right, independent of Page's "ripoff"

He is. I certainly can't think of anyone else who influenced acts as diverse as Led Zeppelin, Frank Sinatra, Neil Young, Lena Horne, Harry Belefonte, and Cake.

If nothing else, he must have made a mint from royalties from writing the US Army "Be All You Can Be" jingle which has been used since the late '70s to this day. The Dr Pepper "Be a Pepper" jingle is a Randy Newman/Jake Holmes joint effort; that would have been an interesting collaboration on real songs.

god who cares, by the time Zep got through Dazed & Confused it was basically just a jumping off point for 30-minute improvs

― Force Boxman (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, December 5, 2012 1:24 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

The guy who he ripped it off from cares, Im sure.

not that it matters, but Holmes is successful in his own right, independent of Page's "ripoff"

― Force Boxman (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, December 5, 2012 1:51 PM (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Youre right, this is totally fucking irrelevant. These guys are a total fraud.

one more piece of the puzzle

is there any way we could work the Beatles vs Stones, Pitchfork, and the ethics of filesharing into this discussion?

How did he lose the plagiarism suit then?

― Ismael Klata, Wednesday, December 5, 2012 1:40 PM (1 hour ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

Cuz he was going up against a guy from FUCKING LED ZEPPELIN, who could probably afford seriously fierce lawyers. Holmes was probably represented by a legal team of significantly less quality

I thought this was settled out-of-court, no?

I'm sure the "waited for 40 years to sue" thing figured into it

The case was dismissed with prejudice (meaning it can not be retried). Sometimes it means the parties reached a settlement out of court, not sure what happened here.

Waiting 40+ years to sue was not an issue, although it did prevent Holmes from collecting royalties from previous airplay. He became aware of the Zep version at least since 1969, two years after his own original record was issued. He didn't consider it a big deal at the time. Keep in mind back then it was an album track from the first and only album from a new, little-known band that had never had a hit, not the uber-classic it is today from one of the biggest rock bands ever.

> waiting 40+ years to sue was not an issue, although it did prevent Holmes from collecting royalties from previous airplay

sales too, not just airplay.

Thx for recommending the Page intvws book, ithappens! Amazon just got my $.

There is a rehearsal labeled "Jennings farm blues" which as I recall is a good quality electric version of "bron-yr-aur stomp"

Jake Holmes also came up with the "Gillette! The best! A man! Can Get!" jingle.

also encouraged us to see the softer side of Sears...

xp his first attempt was "Been shaved and confused for so long . . ." but, well.

then he had "Gillette! Jimmy Page is such a get"

If you've never heard it, here's a live early-1968 live recording of the Yardbirds playing "Dazed and Confused", still with the original Jake Holmes lyrics intact. Oddly enough, Zep's ASCAP submission for "Dazed" credits both Plant and Page as writers, but Plant was scrubbed from the credits (as he was for the entire first album) apparently because he was still under a songwriting contract for another label. I suspect the revamped lyrics are largely Percy's work, which would mean only the instrumental middle section was actually written by Jimmy Page. And that part was lifted from yet another Yardbirds tune, "Think About It", which had the identical guitar solo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58mQvW0ROag

So you're saying Zeppelin pioneered ... sampling! How ironic.

Did anyone just catch the Kennedy Center Honors on TV? The Foo Fighters turfed out right in front of Led Zeppelin. Then the Heart-Jason Bonham-gospel choir version of StH was so bad I had to leave the room. Led Zeppelin were clearly mortified, I could not watch. Kid Rock brought all three LZ members to their feet with joy....the whole thing was surreal.

Plant was clearly moved during "Stairway..." and Page seemed to be enjoying it. Foo Fighters were def. terrible.

The again I probably just never "got" the Foo Fighters.

I know a guy who is friends with Plant's girlfriend down in Austin. Says Plant is a super great guy. What did you think of Lenny Kravitz, Jay Vee?

I watched that. The musical performances were all uniformly cover-band competent, but holy fuck, Jack Black is a demon sent to earth to annihilate the very idea of entertainment. To quote Robert Plant, "Does anyone remember laughter?" Yeah, it died the moment Jack Black waddled to the podium.

I missed him thank god--he falls into the Ricky Gervais camp of the sight of his face makes me want to punch him

he overdoes it. I guess there are people who enjoy that...

Then the Heart-Jason Bonham-gospel choir version of StH was so bad I had to leave the room.

Ha, this was the only part I found tolerable. But when Jason Bonham is the swingingest drummer in the room, best to change rooms.

looool

Leftsetz was drooling about how wonderful it was, when it was merely cover band competent

It was such an unsuccessful reinvention of Stairway...in fact, I thought I saw a slight eye roll from Plant to Jones during one of the cut aways to them. I had such a fontasy that Joni would come out and do Going to California for them...LZ probably would have died of joy right there

Neil Young/James Taylor/Linda Ronstadt cover of Bron-Yr-Aur Stomp

Led Zeppelin were clearly mortified

ladies and gentlemen, the art of confirmation bias

hey underrated, i haven't seen my shrink in two weeks and just got done with the holiday, so please forgive me for telling you to go f- yourself!

mortally clarified

last night Letterman reran the Page/Plant/Jones interview, didn't see it at the time...it was kinda lol but mostly sad how much Dave just talked about the Kennedy Center ceremony (quoting Jack Black's spiel, going over who performed) but still a lot of fun just to see those guys doing a talk show together. JPJ a genuinely clever, funny guy!

Jones is the only one of them I'd want to interview.

jpj definitely seems like the sophisticated center.

He's a smart guy but Page is the sophisticate. Of the three, Page's musical output post-Zeppelin is by far the worst, but the guy's a genuine polymath — he spends more time doing favela rehabilitation in Brazil (he's spent millions on it), collecting rare manuscripts, and researching/preserving Victorian architecture (he's among a handful of William Burges experts)

xpost During Letterman when Dave brings up theat Stairway performance, Plant looks over at Paul Schaffer and rolls his eyes like "who farted?"

i kind of wonder if Page being the main architect of LZ made the mediocrity of his later work inevitable -- it's like everything he ever wanted to do was wrapped up in that band and executed beautifully, how can he ever top it? at least Plant seemed to have some musical interests/ambitions that weren't totally satisfied by Zep that left him some room to have an interesting solo career.

This is so OTM. I think for Page Zeppelin was the culmination of all the ideas he'd been piling up working for years as a session man and studio whiz.

If you think about it Plant never really had a chance to evolve on his own...he was like 18 or whatever when this big-shot from London swooped in and said "this is what we're doing"

OTM seconded. Everything Page did after Zep was an attempt to get another Zep happening: the Firm, Coverdale/Page, the Black Crowes dealie...

Page/Plant was the best of these, obviously, but man, if there was ever an ideal Bonham replacement, it was Michael Lee.

xpost During Letterman when Dave brings up theat Stairway performance, Plant looks over at Paul Schaffer and rolls his eyes like "who farted?"
― Hadrian VIII, Friday, December 28, 2012 9:46 AM (1 hour ago)

What were you saying again, underrated, you jerk!

yeah Page had had a full musicial career with varying degrees of satisfaction by the time he'd formed Led Zep -- Zep was like, i dunno, Page the former apprentice going into business for himself.
Creatively he let it all hang out, building on a lot of things that had been stewing for a while elsewhere, whereas like Hadrian says, Zep was really Plant's first gig.

apropos of nothing, I saw this on wiki. nothing should surprise me about Page anymore but O_O

"Battle of Evermore" was made up on the spot by Robert [Plant] and myself. I just picked up John Paul Jones's mandolin, never having played a mandolin before , and just wrote up the chords and the whole thing in one sitting.[3]

Gah! That's nuts! Ironically, I think Jones played the mandolin part in concert (at least, there was footage of him doing so during the Kennedy Center thing).

p sure he's a sorcerer

I'm sure I've seen a picture of Jones in concert with an acoustic triple-neck thing: guitar, twelve-string and mandolin.

http://cdn.c.photoshelter.com/img-get/I0000Gk307fmF.EQ/s/650/650/John-Paul-Jones-03.jpg

holy fuck

And he's STILL using a crazy-ass variation on it:
http://i251.photobucket.com/albums/gg302/f5mando/Mandolins/john-paul-jones.jpg

except now he has to wear a back brace, lol

crikey

jpj came out and played mandolin on a cover of cortez the killer last time i saw gillian welch & dave rawlings and it was ooomg so good

holy shit that sounds incredible

Other bands that aren't Led Zeppelin are p lame tbh

except pink floyd who RULE

floyd are fine and good UNLESS you wanna compare them to zep

gasp! i would never

is it corny to really love When The Levee Breaks? Like REALLY love.

also I wannna yell BECAAAAAAUSE MUTINY ON THA BOUNTY'S WHAT WE'RE ALL ABOUT whenever the drum intro starts up

that song won the ilx tracks poll, so i don't think anyone has any problem with loving it

Why would it be corny? IT RULES

when was the tracks poll? I would like to read the results thread (or I could just look it up myself bcz I'm a lazy so and so)

xpost idk sometimes I question my choices lol

naw, it's pretty much the greatest thing ever xxxp

POLL LOTTA LOVE - ILM Artist Poll #6 - Led Zeppelin

ty :)

np

oops that was the voting thread, this is the results thread: ILM GONNA CRAWL — Led Zeppelin poll RESULTS THREAD

most amazing slide guitar sound in the Zep catalogue, short of In My Time Of Dying maybe.

IMTOD was the track that finally made me love LZ.

lol at the candles in the background.. never change jimmy

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pqfzx

Interesting to me that "Levee" is in a way the most primal of Zep's awesome songs, and yet also one of its most artificial, and arty. It's long, and there's all sorts of unplayable stuff going on in it.

Well said. The combination of all those qualities is what makes it so great.

don't really understand the artificial/unplayable statement

While I respect 'When The Levee Breaks' for its musicianship and its fantastic drum sound, it actually does very little for me in comparison to other Zeppelin tracks. I don't think 'When The Levee Breaks' has EVER excited me in the way that 'Achilles Last Stand' has over the years, for example.

c'mon, the slide riff in Levee's chorus is what elevates it to next level

drumsdrumsdrumsdrums

(don't get me wrong,I do love Achille's tho, for its proto-metalness)

'Achilles' has that magnificent drum fill as well!

Presence underrated by many IMO

am still not quite over my horror that ppl voted for 'Friends' as most hated in the tracks poll
so mean

i love that song. Not a huge III stan but hat's one of my favs.

Presence overrated by many more like. Love Achilles, love Tea For One, but if ever an album could use a bit of relief - piano, comedy skit, anything.

iii is p great

that's...the complete opposite of what i would ever want on that album

xpost

i mean it's Zeppelin, not Queen 2

I absolutely LOVE 'Friends' - Page's acoustic guitar playing mixed with that great string arrangement. Superb. Love the way it segues into 'Celebration Day', too.

otm

Presence overrated by many more like. Love Achilles, love Tea For One, but if ever an album could use a bit of relief - piano, comedy skit, anything.

― Ismael Klata, Friday, January 11, 2013 7:17 PM (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

That part in 'Nobody's Fault But Mine' where Page is playing the intro riff while Bonham and JPJ go off on that really tight rhythm will never get old!

I absolutely LOVE 'Friends' - Page's acoustic guitar playing mixed with that great string arrangement. Superb. Love the way it segues into 'Celebration Day', too.

Is that strings or a mellotron?

funny i just put zep on this morning for the first time in a long time

i'm in a 10 minute short play right now which uses the Battle of Evermore as the intro song and it's making me yearn for my turntable at the moment (most of my Zep's on pilfered vinyl, y'see)

Is that strings or a mellotron?

― aloo mutter, aloo fatter (WilliamC), Friday, January 11, 2013 7:23 PM (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Flag Post Permalink

I think it's actual strings on that one, rather than a Mellotron!

From Wikipedia...

"Friends" is one of the few Led Zeppelin songs that includes strings. Bass player John Paul Jones did the string arrangement. Some people have expressed surprise at the fact that Jones received no writing credit for this song, given that he was entirely responsible for its string arrangement.[2]
The outro to "Friends" includes a Moog synthesizer, which provides a link to the next track on the album, "Celebration Day". The only known live performance of the song by Led Zeppelin was on 29 September 1971 in Osaka, during the band's Japanese concert tour, as exhibited on a number of Led Zeppelin bootleg recordings of the show. If listened to closely, Page can be heard asking Plant if he wanted to perform the song when John Bonham had returned from unknown activities backstage.

Hahahaha... 'unknown activities backstage'...