The Smiths - Meat Is Murder poll

it was hard for me to leave out "How Soon Is Now" because being a yank i have only known this album with that song on it. results should be a bit more interesting without that song in the poll however.

Their worst album. Voted for "Nowhere Fast" over "That Joke..."

Headmaster Ritual.

Wait, worse than Strangeways? No way!

Way! I don't think they ever recorded a great album through and through, but thanks to the production Strangeways comes as close as Queen.

I would have to listen again, bcz I have mostly forgotten these songs in the 15-20 years since I last played this.

Imho the songs are alot weaker on Strangeways

you were right to leave out HSIN. As a fellow yank, I sympathize w/ yr dilemmma - but it is such an obvious standalone single.

"Headmaster Ritual" edging "What She Said"

Their worst album, yes

"What She Said"

I'm with Alfred (and now rip) that this is definitely the worst album.

Strangeways is so their worst album.

strangeways is the only one i never got into

I like it better than the debut, think I'll vote "Headmaster" b/c I am so wild about that guitar tone.

I just never accepted this iteration of the Smiths -- the earnest jangle as opposed to the camp jangle. Plus, Morrissey still hadn't learned how to sing on pitch yet.

this is a GREAT Johnny Marr album, esp. TJIFA - I think I'll be voting for that.

Yeah Strangeways is worse imo.

Rusholme Ruffians

So true Hippie John, except for Queen which is Morrissey-Marr firing on all cylinders this is really Marr's album

Well I Wonder. One of my fav. Smiths songs.

Is it just me, or is Meat Is Murder some kind of uncanny valley between the brilliance of the debut and the holy-shit-brilliance of The Queen Is Dead? It feels like this was the record they got all of their (ok, Morrissey's) worst tendencies out on before moving on to a record that only highlighted their best qualities.

the best Smiths album I've heard - voted That Joke... but the title-track, Ruffians and Headmaster are also killah

this is by far the dreamiest, most psychedelic, heat-scorched Smiths experience fwiw (hence the best)

I think age 14 this was the only tape I listened to for a year straight

^ The first one I knew and still my favourite. 'Nowhere Fast' for its joyous, bubbling bassline. Full ranking: nf; wiw; rr; wss; bbah; iwtoich; tjifa; thr; mim.

Has anybody seen 'In The Year Of The Pig', the documentary that the cover image is taken from? I've never heard of it in any other context. It seems a rather uncharacteristic choice.

I went for Barbarism, if only because it was very very similar to something I'd worked up as a 'long track' some time before...

Never understood people commonly calling it the worst. For me:

Meat is Murder > Queen is Dead >> Strangeways >>> s/t

Barely going "Headmaster" over "Nowhere Fast", but THIS (esp. @ 0:31, where Marr isn't quite sure if he played it just right...):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FnvUngF-pE

He looks pretty cool there. I love that track so much, it was gutting to learn Johnny doesn't think much of it.

The Headmaster Ritual.

Wilson does himself no favours here, imagine talking to a pop star with a Number 1 album like that today!
but it's of historical interest all the same:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sCuqKzW6r7M

he was probably still narked that he didn't sign them to Factory.

Well, also that Morrissey has always disdained Joy Division, which to TWilson is "you can slag off my wife, right, but DON'T.. DON'T..."

"Headmaster Ritual". Side 1 of this record is way better than side 2 IMO.

"That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore," my all-time fav smiths song

Voted "What She Said," but I voted too quickly. Should have gone for "That Joke".

Side 1 of this record is way better than side 2 IMO.

I'll have to look again to be sure, but it feels to me like that's true of every Smiths record.

nah no way is it true of Queen..

BUT that only generally and rather vaguely. Some of their best tracks are on the second side, or on the B-side of a single, etc. It's not a fair way to judge them at all, either way.

it's a thrilling run of songs, side a for sure
never seen this vid before:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ln0q7GH_K6U&feature=related

Is it just me, or is Meat Is Murder some kind of uncanny valley between the brilliance of the debut and the holy-shit-brilliance of The Queen Is Dead? It feels like this was the record they got all of their (ok, Morrissey's) worst tendencies out on before moving on to a record that only highlighted their best qualities.

dingdingdingdingding!

voted "I Want The One I Can't Have", prob. the Smiths song that comes to mind the most often, though I rarely listen to the album & I think I've come to like the version that I play in my head a lot better than the real song; actually that's true of "Well I Wonder" also

A friend of mine played this album daily on our drive to high school one year so I think that's responsible for these songs being omnipresent to me despite my only occasionally putting it on---I find the album a slog that I'm unnaturally attracted to.

yeah, I've had a number of conversations with guys for whom this album was the real breakthrough, not the debut.

I think this album would have been better as a rockabilly-tinged concept album about the perils of adolescence in 1980s England, i.e. more songs in the vein of Rushholme Ruffians.

violence and longing, a sense of space

with How Soon Is Now included this is my favorite Smiths album. It's a bit messy and wobbly but that's part of the charm; Queen Is Dead-era Smiths are a bit antiseptic for me in long-form batches. Voting for the Headmaster Ritual for the jangly, dissonant introduction but "Nowhere Fast" and "Barbarism Begins at Home" also have some real Marr highlights.

Queen Is Dead-era Smiths are a bit antiseptic

Agree with this. I guess I don't consider any of their LPs as masterworks; Louder Than Bombs is easily my favorite Smiths CD.

good singles/compilation tracks = Strangeways >= 1st 7 tracks of Meat is Murder > most of The Queen is Dead > crap singles/compilation tracks > s/t > last two tracks on Meat is Murder

I don't think I've listened to side two more than three or four times despite having listened to the first side hundreds of times.

Nowt wrong with 'Barbarism'.

xp to self - I watched the first ten mins of In The Year Of The Pig on youtube this morning and it seems even less characteristic now. It's clearly a fine piece of film, but extremely hardhitting - one of the first shots is a close up of some self-immolation, with the immolees still moving and twitching as they are consumed. Utterly horrible to see.

Alfred is totally right, this is their worst album

This is my favorite Smiths album.
Can't get enough of the Marr jangle. Voted Headmaster Ritual, was a breakthrough moment for me as an adolescent.

This is probably my second favorite Smiths album, after TQID. Can't decide between Headmaster Ritual and That Joke...will probably end up voting for the latter because it is the saddest song evah

My after school job for a year entailed cleaning a factory and the kid I worked with played this over the works P.A every shift for a good 6 months.

I do particularly enjoy the fake rain on 'Well I Wonder' but I'm going to have to go with 'Joke' for the reprise alone. I'm a sucker for songs that go on longer than they should at the end but in an awesome way (see beetlebum). I do like the 'Rank' version of 'RR' though and that version of 'What She Said' too come to think of it.

have never understood why people hate Strangeways. pop hooks galore, Morrissey at his funniest and most bitter, sharply drawn character sketches that are leaps and bounds beyond what he started out writing, plus their tightest pop song (Girlfriend in a Coma) and their most maudlin epic (Last Night I Dreamt that Somebody Loved Me). I used to attribute people's hatred of this album to "sellout!" sentiments brought on by their leaving Rough Trade but can't imagine anyone seriously holding that against them in this day and age.

People hate Strangeways... because, aside from a couple of songs, it's entirely tone-deaf and awful, plus it sounds like a smug pile of shit.

"Unhappy Birthday" is a dud, but "I Started Something...," "I Won't Share You," "Stop Me If You Think...," "Paint a Vulgar Picture" – what a run.

Morrissey has ALWAYS been smug!

there's nothing on Strangeways as tone deaf and awful as Miserable Lie for ex.

xp

The excellence of the musicianship and Morrissey's vocal confidence (more like plumage at this point) mitigates the smugness (which I agree is inescapable).

*mitigate

I remember hating "I Started Something...", thinking "Stop Me.." was okay but overrated and I have zero recollection of the other 2

I always liked "A Rush And A Push..." tho

My suspicion is that the sleeve is a big part of the reason for hating Strangeways. It's such a horrible colour and such a totally unmemorable image, it makes the music seem more insipid than maybe it is.

strangeways is the best one.

i kinda think the debut is the worst one. incredibly draggy, except for the singles.

^^^^

well I think Meat is Murder is worse but the debut has a bunch of half-formed stuff on it

I liked Strangeways... when I first heard it well enough but didn't really bother digging further into The Smiths discography until I heard Louder Than Bombs and "The Boy With The Thorn In His Side"; from that point on, everything I heard by them made me like Strangeways... less and less (except the debut, and even with its ugly sound the actual songs are just leagues better).

Also "Girlfriend In A Coma" is just wretched.

I'd rank it:

Strangeways
Queen is Dead
Meat is Murder
The Smiths

myself.

The debut suffers from poor production but a lot of the stuff on there sounds better in the live recordings. Reel Around the Fountain and I Don't Owe You Anything are the only real duds and even so, they were still Smiths songs.

The Hatful iteration of "Reel Around The Fountain" is one of my favorite Smiths songs of all time!

yeah, the hatful version is wonderful -- the version on the debut sounds like they're about to fall asleep.

yep, should have mentioned Hatful too - should have put 'duds' in inverted commas (secretly I think they only made three really shite songs).

I'd be happy with the Singles compilation.

Voted for I Want The One I Can't Have just ahead of Well I Wonder.

Over the years I have thought each of the other Smiths albums have been the best one at some point but this one has always been my least favourite. Strangeways is my favourite these days.

'I'd rank it:

Strangeways
Queen is Dead
Meat is Murder
The Smiths'

gyac otm. i'd rank them exactly the same way.

I agree with NV's ordering of Smiths album but yeah, Strangeways is fab---I'll rep for "Unhappy Birthday" & "Girlfriend In A Coma" even. I don't hear Morrissey as particularly smug on it; in disarray, yes, but I don't think he means anything on the album (and that's a good thing!).

Voted "Meat Is Murder". Don't necessarily like the dogmatic morality of the lyrics, but the deliver is powerful and beautiful. No question about it.

*delivery

hate the tittle track. love "That Joke..." the most. voted "Well I Wonder"

yeah this is their weakest. "What She Said" is the most rocking Smiths track though.

Queen is Dead
The Smiths
Meat is Murder
Strangeways

^ is this yr ranking? otm

yes it is

Queen is Dead
Meat is Murder
Strangeways
The Smiths

i think a poll is needed for which ranking you prefer

I still love Louder Than Bombs more than any studio album, sorry.

^ this

I still love Louder Than Bombs Hatful Of Hollow more than any studio album, sorry.

correct order is:

Hatful of Hallow
The Queen Is Dead
Louder Than Bombs
Meat Is Murder
The Smiths
Strangeways, Here We Suck

strangeways, here we cum

My ranking: Strangeways > Smiths > Meat > Queen

ouch

that seems to be exactly backwards

the world won't listen

I don't really count TWWL, not if I'm including LTB

rank rank

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qx51PsNBe8E

IIRC Morrissey sounds like death warmed over on most of Rank

My ranking: Strangeways > Smiths > Meat > Queen

― daavid, Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:57 PM (9 minutes ago) Bookmark

that's just crazy

Headmaster Ritual is by far my favourite Smiths song. Love the music and even the vocals.

I was not a huge fan of the Smiths. While all this was going on I was digging the Huskers et al

xpost - I'm just thinking in terms of how many songs I really like per album. So in my book 12 avg to good songs (eg The Queen is Dead) ranks below than 4 excellent ones plus filler. In that sense I prefer Strangeways... To me the Smiths were a singles band anyway.

the only song on TQID that I don't really like is "Vicar In A Tutu"

I don't mind "Vicar in a Tutu" but...yeah, it seems somewhat lesser than the greatness that surrounds it

Perhaps the least good album, yes, but still great. Voted for "That Joke..." over "The Headmaster Ritual".

Well I Wonder. One of my fav. Smiths songs.

― brotherlovesdub

^ This...

Queen is Dead
The Smiths
Meat is Murder
Strangeways

― Algerian Goalkeeper

...and this ^.

There are some albums that you hear at a certain point in your life which literally changes the landscape for you, and the way you see things. This album is one such for me, and therefore I have little objectivity about it. Just listening to it now is so transportive back to a time and place where it meant SO MUCH to me. And frankly it still sounds amazing. I tend to agree with the folks that rate "Hatful" as their fave Smiths release, but this is far and away their best LP to me. "Queen Is Dead" was good and all but suffered a bit from overplay at the time and just not striking the same internal chords that "Meat Is Murder" did for me.

Yeah, I think that's my situation also.

This is my favorite Smiths album. These guys were always a singles band to me, though.

my instinct was to vote for nowhere fast, but i don't think that's quite fair, kind of like voting for frankly mr. shankly wouldn't be fair.

so i voted for well i wonder. this is a fantastic album, when i first listened to it i thought it was better than the queen is dead.

the smiths are a great singles band indeed but many of their album tracks sound just like their singles & are just as great! they do have plenty of mediocre/bad album tracks, though.

The Smiths
Meat Is Murder
The Queen Is Dead
Strangeways, Here We Come

So, yeah, I would rank them chronologically. To me the Smiths got less amazing as they went on. Something changed by 1986... I like the later stuff (and some of the singles, especially, were great), but it's not the same.

On the other hand, I've always preferred LTB over HOH. (I'm not so fond of the Peel session versions of some of those songs. Odd, I know.)

MIM was my first Smiths album (with HSIN, of course). Voted "I Want The One I Can't Have" over "That Joke" and "What She Said."

guess I'll be the first to rank them thusly

s/t
Queen
Strangeways
MIM

everyone who dotes on the first side of this album is otm - it's fucken amazing, completely unlike any other Smiths imo ('How Soon Is Now' fits snugly alongside those songs)

Christgau:

Meat Is Murder [Sire, 1985]

It makes a certain kind of sense to impose teen-macho aggression on your audience--for better or worse, macho teens are expected to make a thing of their unwonted hostility. These guys impose their post-adolescent sensitivity, thus inspiring the sneaking suspicion that they're less sensitive than they come on--passive-aggressive, the pathology is called, and it begs for a belt in the chops. Only the guitar hook of "How Soon Is Now," stuck on by their meddling U.S. label, spoils the otherwise pristine fecklessness of this prize-winning U.K. LP. Remember what the Residents say: "Hitler was a vegetarian." C+

One of the most influential reviews I ever read, btw. When I learned at nineteen the not very original idea that sensitivity could be as awful as machismo I was blown away.

Remember what wankers have been saying to vegetarians ever since: "Hitler was a vegetarian." (Though, in Morrissey's case, xgau does have a point re: liking animals much more than human beings)

'That Joke Isn't Funny Anymore' was a classic terrible-choice-of-single - #49! - and first nail in the Rough Trade coffin to boot. I'm wondering what the 'right' choice would've been - I think it's 'What She Said'

but it's their best song, as crut says

Maybe but first rule of a single is to be successful surely? Morrissey bottling it at the last minute from going on Wogan can't've helped either.

I think "Nowhere Fast" was originally scheduled to be a single, but then replaced with the re-release of 'How Soon Is Now?'. Following that with "Shakespeare's Sister" and then "That Joke..." really tanked the Smiths as a single band until "Panic".

I don't disagree that the band sounds passive-ish aggressive on this album, but the passivity's pretty self-aware, it's written all over their faces. And the album never sounded sensitive to me; maybe at the time the band was sold as such but it's not in evidence on this album or the debut.

Yeah, seeing Christgau's general dislike of the Smiths (and Kraftwerk) helped me figure out that he and I look for completely different things in music.

God "How Soon is Now" is some over-rated balls. Side 1 of Meat is Murder is all sprightly, sly, waspish pop hits a-go-go and yet lovers of tedium still rep for that fucking banal 6 minute dirgeathon.

Actually, he liked their later albums and several Morrissey solo things.

xpost

i am hesitating between "well i wonder" and "that joke isn't funny anymore". very difficult choice. they are both indispensable.

Hitler *wasn't* a vegetarian in case that still needs pointing out.

he did think all reggae is vile tho

he preferred the Go-Betweens.

think you mean the Untergangs iirc

"Rusholme Ruffians"

"Rusholme Ruffians" was the one that I hated the most that year my friend played this album daily in the car: the guitar line is so monotonous, I though; & then I heard the Rank with the Elvis bit & I got it.

Surprised myself and voted for "What She Said" because it is such a titanic RUSH

What put me off the first/early smiths was the feeling that the band were being "Keep playing until he stops singing, that's the end of the song"

Whereas "Rusholme Ruffians" is also like that, but the loop actually makes sense in the context of a funfair hubbub.

Relistening, and realizing this album is a lot better than I remembered.

Anyway, probably "That Joke..."

And actually, HSIN follows pretty nicely from TJIFA... Just sayin'.

Xgau's highest Smiths grade was a B+, does that count as liked? His tone doesn't sound like he cares for any of it.

people who bitch about people liking "How Soon Is Now?" are 1000x more irritating than people who don't listen to any Smiths songs other than "How Soon Is Now?"

Well, he does admit, after liking TQIS and LTB, that he anticipated SHWEC: "Having conquered my wimpophobia to where I reflexively enjoy the supple smarts of their sound, I bore down anticipating even tastier goodies.."

man I just listened to Paint a Vulgar Picture for the first time in a while. this fucking tune, so ingeniously constructed. ample bitterness and bile for everyone involved - the record company, the star, the audience - with only the most backhanded gesture of sympathy reserved for the psychotic fan

and I tend to hate songs about "the music industry"

yah, but they don't usually include the protagonist as a fan, they're usually the "put-upon pop star"

"Paint a Vulgar Picture" is one of Morrissey's vocal peaks; he rides those chord and temp shifts like a pro.

yah, but they don't usually include the protagonist as a fan, they're usually the "put-upon pop star"

yeah this is one of the best things about it, it upends yr expectations. from the first verse about the record co. you expect him to be doing the whiny pop star bit, but the second verse indicts the pop star as a weak-willed whore. then the third verse shifts to the perspective of the fan, but even that is undercut by the alternately disturbing/pathetically obsessive details (a bit of the Carpenters' "Superstar" in there I think, with the "me and my true love/will never meet again" refrain)

that yah is a mistype, btw (shudder)

ay crut I just think "HSIN" is super-boring, people can like what they want obv, but side 1 of this album is as good a set of songs as they ever put together imo.

well i wonder, one of the most gorgeous songs in the universe.

wow i hate this album so much that i actually cant rememeber how any of these songs go.

my ranking for those who care:

Louder Than Bombs
Strangeways
Queen is Dead
The Smiths
Hatful of Hollow
this thing

"Paint A Vulgar Picture" is really, really terrible; basically it sounds to me like they needed to fill in a spot on the album so Marr came up with 16 bars of music and Morrissey freestyled over it while the band transposed up because they couldn't be bothered to do an actual song.

Let's talk about the beauty that is Well I Wonder. In particular the instrumental outro starting at appx 3mins. In the remastered version, you can hear a faint melody that sounds like a xylophone or something and then there's the buried guitar melody that only shows up at the end. This song is so gorgeous and I really love the way it ends. The intro is great too. I like the bass interplay and how it drops out for the delivery of the first line. Crazy good song. Not sure what the poll results will be but judging by the 3 people who've spoken up for it in the thread, i'm guessing it's seriously underrated.

I like what Drew has to say about "Well I Wonder" at the bottom of this http://stereogum.com/113481/meat_is_murder_turns_25/top-stories/

I'd've given it a vote but I just love 'Nowhere Fast' the most

i'm finding people ranking interesting, this is how Acclaimed Music has them ranked:

The Queen Is Dead 1986 Year Rank ('86): 1, Decade Rank: 4, All Time Rank: 28
The Smiths 1984 Year Rank : 3, Decade: 29, All Time: 192
Hatful of Hollow 1984 Year Rank 10, Decade 93, All Time: 568
Meat Is Murder 1985 Year Rank 13, Decade 101, All Time: 593
Strangways, Here We Come 1987 Year Rank 12, Decade 102, All Time: 599

Here is how I would rank them, going from the five that were with me during the time I listened to them most:

1) Louder Than Bombs
2) Queen Is Dead
3) Strangeways, Here We Come
4) Meat Is Murder (U.S. edition)
5) Smiths

I would usually pick Nowhere Fast without hesitation but in the last year or so I've come to place Well I Wonder on the same (top) level. I'm having a hard time making a decision so it's time for a walk and a listen.

Queen
Louder
Hatful
Meat
Smiths
Strangeways

I love most of the songs on Strangeways - I just hate the production in many cases.

I went to McDonald tonight to get a shamrock shake for the first time since I was ten and "How Soon Is Now" was playing. And those shakes are nowhere near as good as I remember them.

Crazy. This sounds like a David Berman lyric. Was "How Soon Is Now?" as good?

it was weird to hear while sitting at one of those little tables, being disappointed by a milkshake on a Friday night.

probably have heard "How Soon Is Now" more than any other song from the 80's. never go t sick of it.

Automatic thread bump. This poll is closing tomorrow.

ended up voting for "The Headmaster Ritual."

this might be Johnny Marr's best:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGoC-WEh530

The German Rockpalast. I missed that one because I didn't have a telly at the time. Some great dancing of Morrissey and Marr too there.

Automatic thread bump. This poll's results are now in.

good turnout

best version of Nowhere Fast was the Peel session:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Bie785GQok

Love this album cover mashup:

http://30.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lanu3h4QO81qz7axfo1_500.jpg

That's vg.

is there an actual big willie style/meat is murder mashup?

I love that live version of Barbarism with Pete Burns. It sounds as though the band wait for Moz & Pete to get on the tour bus, and then completely take it to another level when they've got the stage to themselves. Like some great lost Manchester jazz-funk outfit.

Wow, is this album over-rated! I hope I don't hurt anyone's feelings.

What She Said got robbed imo

Good piece on this album:
https://thequietus.com/opinion-and-essays/anniversary/the-smiths-meat-is-murder-review-2/