Literary Clusterfucks 2013

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Roos all got one clothing, same as Beef-a-roni do.

peace, man, Monday, 7 March 2022 17:08 (two years ago) link

I'm a little annoyed by the reflexive criticism of the new book, but yeah, I also saw excerpts of The Country of Ice Cream Star and thought "yikes."

Also this interview:

How did you go about creating the voice of Ice Cream Star (and the groups who live in Massa) and how did you sustain that for an entire novel?

I didn’t initially intend to write the book in an invented patois. But when I started to write the book, it had to be set in a future world, and I wanted to the voice to feel absolutely real. I’ve always been the kind of writer (and reader) who needs a story to be completely convincing. When I was writing the book in standard English, I just couldn’t believe in it. A hundred years had passed. Obviously English would have changed in that time, especially if there were no schools and no media, and the language was only being spoken by children and teenagers.

So from there, the language ended up being informed by African-American English. I’ve given a lot of reasons for this, but the bottom line is just that it’s my favorite English, and probably objectively the best English going. It also gave me not only a model for innovation in the vocabulary, but a starting point for innovation in the grammar. And finally, most people are familiar with it to some degree, so readers have a starting point for understanding it.

Once I had the flavor of African-American speech in the language (and don’t get me wrong – it’s not African-American Vernacular English as spoken now, but it’s obviously strongly influenced by it) it felt like the characters should be black. Or, put another way, why shouldn’t they be black? I mean, it became a choice to make them anything but black.

And then, as soon as I thought of them as black, the book came to life in the most incredible and inexplicable way. It began to write itself. I don’t know why this is, since the book isn’t about race – or it’s only very occasionally, tangentially, about race. It just suddenly felt like a real world I had discovered, rather than an imaginary world I was inventing. Everything fell into place.

I was very aware that this was a controversial thing to do, as a white person. I thought about it a lot, and questioned my position, and etc But after a while, I couldn’t really help writing the book that way because it worked. Also, the characters very quickly became real people to me, who demanded to be written about as they were.

Sustaining it for an entire novel was time-consuming, but incredibly rewarding. In fact, I now find it a little sad writing in normal English, because it’s just not possible to be as inventive. And, just as with any foreign language, there are words in Sengle English for which there are no exact equivalents in contemporary English, so I sometimes end up feeling like my normal speech is an inadequate translation.

jaymc, Monday, 7 March 2022 17:09 (two years ago) link

every sentence a red flag

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:10 (two years ago) link

I saw that interview but couldn't even bring myself to read it until you excerpted it.

Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:12 (two years ago) link

I think you mean "erry senny a flag rouge", Brad

castanuts (DJP), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:12 (two years ago) link

it's my favorite English

towards fungal computer (harbl), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:14 (two years ago) link

Once I had the flavor of African-American speech in the language (and don’t get me wrong – it’s not African-American Vernacular English as spoken now, but it’s obviously strongly influenced by it) it felt like the characters should be black. Or, put another way, why shouldn’t they be black? I mean, it became a choice to make them anything but black.

....

i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:17 (two years ago) link

In fact, I now find it a little sad writing in normal English, because it’s just not possible to be as inventive.

A writer said this.

Jaime Pressly and America (f. hazel), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:18 (two years ago) link

composing the sentence "our people be a tarry night sort" and then congratulating yourself on writing a book that "isn't about race" is a breathtaking achievement, we need a Newman Prize for this sort of thing

rob, Monday, 7 March 2022 17:20 (two years ago) link

"writing in English sucks because then my racism will be harder to hide"

i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:24 (two years ago) link

*normal English (who says "normal English" btw)

i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:24 (two years ago) link

okay i am legit dying here at "i don't know nothin bout birthin no taters"

Tracer Hand, Monday, 7 March 2022 17:25 (two years ago) link

as soon as I thought of them as black, the book came to life in the most incredible and inexplicable way. It began to write itself. I don’t know why this is,

I THINK I MIGHT KNOW WHY THIS IS

Tracer Hand, Monday, 7 March 2022 17:26 (two years ago) link

this is almost as bad as M Night creating a rapper character named Mid Size Sedan in Old

i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:27 (two years ago) link

no this is much worse

STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:29 (two years ago) link

actually you are correct

i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:30 (two years ago) link

I don’t know why this is, since the book isn’t about race – or it’s only very occasionally, tangentially, about race. It just suddenly felt like a real world I had discovered, rather than an imaginary world I was inventing. Everything fell into place.

what the fuck

a (waterface), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:41 (two years ago) link

Ugh.

Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:41 (two years ago) link

Please forgive me but now I can't get this out my head:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XBi_CyJe604

Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:42 (two years ago) link

that interview is somehow worse than her invented language

a (waterface), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:43 (two years ago) link

and how did you sustain that for an entire novel?

the question that needed to be asked.

removing bookmarks never felt so good (PBKR), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:52 (two years ago) link

every sentence a red flag

― STOCK FIST-PUMPER BRAD (BradNelson), Monday, March 7, 2022 9:10 AM (thirty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I think you mean "erry senny a flag rouge", Brad

― castanuts (DJP), Monday, March 7, 2022 9:12 AM (thirty-one minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

fucking lost it at this, thanking u DJP

we need outrage! we need dicks!! (the table is the table), Monday, 7 March 2022 17:53 (two years ago) link

I didn't know anything about all this when I first formed my opinion, was just relying on the plot summary and the irondreamclad reputation of ILB0r mookieproof.

Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 18:04 (two years ago) link

I guess it wasn’t even a summary not that it would have mattered.

Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 18:07 (two years ago) link

i feel like a version of “seeking one’s own counsel for a bad idea” exists in every one of these types of clusterfucks

“i asked myself if it was a good idea & i said yes”

I was very aware that this was a controversial thing to do, as a white person. I thought about it a lot, and questioned my position, and etc But after a while, I couldn’t really help writing the book that way because it worked. Also, the characters very quickly became real people to me, who demanded to be written about as they were.

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 7 March 2022 18:29 (two years ago) link

i did not ask any POC bc then i would not be able to do my good idea

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 7 March 2022 18:30 (two years ago) link

What could go wrong?

Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 18:37 (two years ago) link

It's funny that this isn't even the book this clusterfuck is about

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 7 March 2022 18:39 (two years ago) link

lol thats true i forgot abt that

terminators of endearment (VegemiteGrrl), Monday, 7 March 2022 18:42 (two years ago) link

Isn’t her new book effectively the plot of Y: The Last Man?

castanuts (DJP), Monday, 7 March 2022 18:44 (two years ago) link

yah it's also kinda like The Leftovers

a (waterface), Monday, 7 March 2022 18:47 (two years ago) link

should call this book Why The Last Man?

i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 18:54 (two years ago) link

Or John Wylie's The Disappearance

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 7 March 2022 18:58 (two years ago) link

Or Frank Herbert's The White Plague

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 7 March 2022 19:00 (two years ago) link

Or, uh, Herland

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 7 March 2022 19:01 (two years ago) link

Y oh Y Are All the Wangs Gone?

Nedlene Grendel as Basenji Holmo (map), Monday, 7 March 2022 19:02 (two years ago) link

-Pete Seeger

i read to 69 position (Neanderthal), Monday, 7 March 2022 19:04 (two years ago) link

Or Lauren Beukes' Afterland (which is only 2 years old) where 4 billion males die off in a plague

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 7 March 2022 19:04 (two years ago) link

Y oh Y Are All the Wangs Gone?

― Nedlene Grendel as Basenji Holmo (map), Monday, March 7, 2022 2:02 PM (twenty-three minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

lol

horseshoe, Monday, 7 March 2022 19:29 (two years ago) link

over here singing "when will we ever learn?" to myself

castanuts (DJP), Monday, 7 March 2022 19:31 (two years ago) link

apparently her *next* book is a retelling of 1984 from julia’s pov

mookieproof, Monday, 7 March 2022 19:43 (two years ago) link

High concept writing

Chappies banging dustbin lids together (President Keyes), Monday, 7 March 2022 19:46 (two years ago) link

pic.twitter.com/ARcuWefq7y

— Sandra Newman (@sannewman) January 30, 2018

bulb after bulb, Monday, 7 March 2022 19:47 (two years ago) link

.

Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 20:00 (two years ago) link

^ I'm curious, why do you post these?

jmm, Monday, 7 March 2022 20:08 (two years ago) link

yeah seems pointless

rob, Monday, 7 March 2022 20:11 (two years ago) link

Not sure. Can't think of anything to say but for some reason want to respond. Thought it was local ascii for "speechless." I couldn't think of anythingg to top anything on that thread. Almost said "I stopped at the twentieth one."

Mardi Gras Mambo Sun (James Redd and the Blecchs), Monday, 7 March 2022 20:12 (two years ago) link

(to be clear, "pointless" was just a bad pun)

I scrolled until I got to 100 and gave up

rob, Monday, 7 March 2022 20:13 (two years ago) link


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