xpost Yeah, it would be pretty obnoxious. I think my point was that the protest itself should not strike fear into the hearts of Jews, let alone fear of being "hunted." But that it wouldn't take much provocation to invite negative attention.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 19:50 (six months ago) link
Hey, good timing, Isaac:
https://www.newyorker.com/news/q-and-a/where-does-antisemitism-come-from
Lemme know if anyone needs it copy and pasted.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 19:53 (six months ago) link
You heard about Paul Kessler then? That happened in what is considered a normal suburban enclave in LA.
I don't think anyone should be assaulted for counter protesting.
― felicity, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 19:55 (six months ago) link
i also wouldn't wave an israeli flag at a free palestine rally, idk why that would be so controversial.― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Tuesday, November 7, 2023 11:46 AM (one minute ago)
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Tuesday, November 7, 2023 11:46 AM (one minute ago)
Just read this story of an 65 year old counter-prostestor waving an Israeli flag at a Free Palestine demonstration in suburban LA who was involved in a physical altercation and has died as result of a fall (witness details are mixed whether he was struck, or tripped and fell to the ground on his own). The other person (a 50 year old man) involved in the altercation is cooperating with authorities but there is a burst of social media claming this incident was anti-semitic/terrorist (source: my pro-Israel friends IG shared stories).
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-11-06/man-dies-after-fight-at-protest-westlake-village-israel-hamas-war
― citation needed (Steve Shasta), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 19:57 (six months ago) link
his discovery, in 2nd grade, so around age 6 or 7, of anti-Semitism, by way of his soon to be ex-best friend, Wally Mitler
Woah, Wally Mitler?
― The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 19:57 (six months ago) link
But imagine the response to any other marginalized group's discomfort being "get some perspective."
― mojo dojo casas house (gyac), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 19:57 (six months ago) link
xp to steve shasta, to be clear, i don't think the guy had it coming, obviously that's a terrible thing to happen. of course it's now going to be used as evidence that none of the hundreds of other worldwide protests were peaceful at all.
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:05 (six months ago) link
gyac, I really appreciate that.
Re: taking pain seriously, I agree that it's rarely as much as is warranted or needed, and regardless, it's not like sympathy can be quantified. But here's another story involving one of my kids that I can offer (I've probably told it before). A few years back some knucklehead scribbled racist and anti-Semitic stuff on a bathroom stall at the high school. There was the expected outrage, protests, eventually an assembly, but none of it ever addressed the specifically anti-Semitic aspect of the incident. My daughter came home that afternoon and basically asked, "what about us?" She's a strong kid, and the school responses have improved some since then, but I know she still carries that hurt with her. It's probably curdled into cynicism, which helps no one.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:16 (six months ago) link
Re "settlers" -- there were a lot of arguments going around right after October 7 that the people who were killed were not civilians because they were "settlers." (This is not true by any international law standards btw, as they were living within the 1948 borders, not to mention that I would guess few of them were first generation in Israel). In that context, putting up a sign about "settlers" being "the problem" across from a synagogue seems like pretty clear intent to me.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:17 (six months ago) link
of course it's now going to be used as evidence that none of the hundreds of other worldwide protests were peaceful at all.― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Tuesday, November 7, 2023 12:05 PM bookmarkflaglink
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Tuesday, November 7, 2023 12:05 PM bookmarkflaglink
I think there is a difficulty in engaging with this kind of claim if there appears to be a willful blind spot or what looks like an oblivious/disingenuous denial that some symbols of hatred are mixed with legitimate political protest. Kind of a mixed-motive situation.
Notice I didn't restrict this to pro Israel or pro Palestine.
Has this happened with other peaceful protests?
― felicity, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:30 (six months ago) link
The BLM protests in 2020 are still constantly talked about this way
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:33 (six months ago) link
That's terrible
― felicity, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:33 (six months ago) link
For sure cops are often fucking up peaceful protestors.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:35 (six months ago) link
There's an ongoing perception that the BLM protests were 100% violent and destroyed entire cities
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:36 (six months ago) link
Ok the last question in my post was poorly worded. Were people saying there were hate symbols and messages mixed in to otherwise peaceful protests, what were they, and what should be the response?
― felicity, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:38 (six months ago) link
maybe I need a gut check on the "settlers" one, maybe it's just my media-addled brain seeing something that isn't there, idk. I'm not exactly sure what it means anyway, Brooklyn itself was a Dutch settlement so it seems odd to say settlers are "the problem" within Brooklyn. Brooklyn is mostly settlers by the broad definition used in theory about "settler colonialism" as I understand it. If it means gentrifiers, I think calling them "settlers" is kind of a poor analogy but w/e.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:43 (six months ago) link
I think there is a difficulty in engaging with this kind of claim if there appears to be a willful blind spot or what looks like an oblivious/disingenuous denial that some symbols of hatred are mixed with legitimate political protest. Kind of a mixed-motive situation.Notice I didn't restrict this to pro Israel or pro Palestine.Has this happened with other peaceful protests?
The question that is elided here is what is "legitimate," who decides what is "hatred" or not? While I think what happened to that person in LA is execrable, I would also argue that waving an Israeli flag in that situation is essentially cheering on ethnic cleansing, and is pretty illegitimate as a result.
Regarding your follow-up, I remember very clearly a moment during the early days of Occupy Oakland when I came upon the camp and a friend of mine was in a small group yelling at a woman and asking for her to be escorted away from the camp. The reason? She was spouting off one of the standards of economic antisemitism regarding Jewish people controlling the gold supply, etc etc. The woman *was* escorted away and I never saw her again. There are absolutely fucked up antisemitic things that go on in leftist protest movements, but many times that I've seen, the people being antisemitic are pretty quickly put in their place and told to fuck off.
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:45 (six months ago) link
Over here we've got the UK Home Secretary explicitly calling the pro-Palestinian protests "hate marches". This despite the fact that there's been barely any arrests made at the dozens of marches that have taken place in towns and cities the length and breadth of the UK.
― The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:46 (six months ago) link
x-post Again, that's just my experience in protest and social liberation movements, not universal since much of that experience was in the Bay Area or Philly.
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:47 (six months ago) link
From what I've read the marches in London have been overwhelmingly peaceful. It would be infuriating to have the Home Secretary call them hate marches.
There are absolutely fucked up antisemitic things that go on in leftist protest movements, but many times that I've seen, the people being antisemitic are pretty quickly put in their place and told to fuck off.― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, November 7, 2023 12:45 PM bookmarkflaglink
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, November 7, 2023 12:45 PM bookmarkflaglink
I am very glad to see this acknowledged and to hear that this is the response. It feels like a topic that is absolutely not tolerated for discussion whatsoever.
― felicity, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 20:50 (six months ago) link
Free Palestine is not exclusively a leftist protest movement.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 21:00 (six months ago) link
I never said it was, I was answering more generally about my experience in such movements. I haven’t seen anything antisemitic at recent Philly rallies, fwiw
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 21:15 (six months ago) link
― felicity, Tuesday, November 7, 2023 3:38 PM (twenty-nine minutes ago)
the george floyd protests are not really relevant to the discussion of hate speech, hate symbols etc bcuz the police aren't an ethnic class. you're asking about a dynamic that just wasn't present at that conflict. i'm sure there were "counter protestors" in places saying horrible shit about black people but i don't think that's what you're asking
there were speakers at the DC rally leading the crowd in chants of stuff like "israel go to hell" & things of this nature. personally speaking bcuz of my upbringing that phrasing & concept is not something i'm entirely comfortable with, but i also don't think such chants were intended as anti-semitic dogwhistles even if i'm sure there were some people in the crowd who were receptive to hearing them as such. ultimately i saw/heard nothing that day that made me think the rally was about anything other than an end to the bombing of innocent civilians and achieving permanent humane living conditions for the people of palestine, both of which i just see as plainly agreeable causes
― slob wizard (J0rdan S.), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 21:27 (six months ago) link
man alive, fwiw I think you're right about that sticker. I thought about it more after posting, and while it's basically impossible to parse with confidence, one possible reading of its co-opting of the anti-colonial term "settler" to refer specifically to Brooklyn is that its implying the project of European settler colonialism was a Jewish conspiracy, which is repulsively racist in multiple ways
― rob, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 21:32 (six months ago) link
plausible deniability is a big part of that kind of thing, so that's a reason why they don't always make clear sense
― Muad'Doob (Moodles), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 21:39 (six months ago) link
That's what I mean about the subliminal advertising too.
If anyone's curious, the tests at https://www.projectimplicit.net/ about implicit bias are pretty eye opening. And that's on well-educated adults.
Imagine the effect of all these inputs on children.
― felicity, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 21:52 (six months ago) link
Interestingly, I tried one of those tests (the Religion test) and when you select "White" as your race, it gives you a bunch of ethnicities/nationalities to choose from. "Jewish" is not one.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 22:01 (six months ago) link
Did you do the test? Were you surprised? I did one as a CLE in NY and I definitely was.
― felicity, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 22:08 (six months ago) link
tbh, I didn't finish it, I started to feel both uncomfortable and annoyed with the seemingly endless barrage of categorizing things into "Good" and "Bad" and "Islam" and "Judaism" and it weirded me out that it put "Islam" and "Bad" on the same side even though I'm sure there was some subtle effect being tested for.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 22:10 (six months ago) link
You can do one that's much less emotionally charged. Mine was about male and female careers I think.
― felicity, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 22:13 (six months ago) link
A relative of mine goes to the private girls’ school in London where some kid painted a swastika and “kill Jews” on the wall recently. On the one hand, you know it’s just some idiot kid, maybe’s not even a serious risk, maybe just a kid confusing righteous rebellion tor something stupider. On the other hand… who knows?― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 19:41 (two hours ago) link
― Chuck_Tatum, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 19:41 (two hours ago) link
That is indescribably messed up. Sorry to have skipped over it when you first posted.
― felicity, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 22:29 (six months ago) link
There were swastika's in my daughter's public middle school too recently. I'm actually not 100% clear on whether they were pre- or post-Oct 7 though. I saw them scratched into desks in my schools growing up too, nothing new.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 22:33 (six months ago) link
doesn’t make it any less fucked up of course
― butt dumb tight my boners got boners (the table is the table), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 22:35 (six months ago) link
You'd see swastikas everywhere when I was a kid. Not used as specifically targeted hate speech but just the symbol being drawn, mostly on desks or notebooks or bathroom stalls etc. I do think most of it was done by kids who didn't really have the context or if they did, just didn't understand the true depth of abhorrent evil it represented. Lots of kids grew up seeing the symbol in WW2 films or stories with the Nazis as genuine bad guys but one who were as threatening as Cobra in GI Joe. This is what I like to believe anyway, that most of it really was wrongheaded and regretted later. I don't think that excuse still holds water but I don't know what the kids across America are being taught about it and the Nazis at a young age.
― omar little, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 22:56 (six months ago) link
Keeping in mind I grew up in the midwest sticks
My sister left high school (in the Philly burbs) early because, among other things, someone scratched a swastika into her locker. Pretty confident the person doing it knew what they were doing, even if they weren't explicitly a Nazi or whatever.
There was a really long radio piece (or podcast?) about the woman that discovered implicit bias, at least from an academic vantage. It began with her assisting another researcher in a memory study about finding familiar or famous sounding names in the phone book or something, and iirc she learned that male names were more likely to be remembered or identified as "famous" than female names. Something like that. Anyway, once she pursued her new field of research she made all sorts of surprising discoveries, including the revelation that while she expected children to display implicit bias less than adults (innocent, blank slate, etc.) that was often very much not the case, revealing the impact environment (among other factors) has on even young kids when it comes to bias. Illuminating.
I thought the New Yorker interview (David Feldman, the director of the Birkbeck Institute for the Study of Antisemitism, at Birkbeck College, University of London) I posted was full of interesting observations. Like:
I have written about antisemitism as a reservoir in the culture, something there to be drawn on. And this is a reservoir which has built up over centuries, even over millennia. There are three key elements in this: one is the idea that Judaism has been superseded by Christianity (the notion that Jews have a particularistic and narrow morality is one consequence of that idea); second, the idea that Jews are forever conspiratorial and up to something against the common good; and, third, the connection of Jews with money. These ideas have been repurposed over centuries in multiple political contexts. And we see them repurposed in some of the antisemitic attacks on Israel.One thing shown by multiple opinion surveys in the United States, Germany, and in the U.K. and elsewhere, is that the percentage of committed ideological antisemites is relatively small, but the diffusion of negative stereotypes and narratives about Jews through the culture is much higher and much wider. At certain moments, people draw on these, especially at political flash points when these ideas appear to be useful, and when they appear to explain something. Yes, there are antisemites, sort of ideologically committed individuals and groups who have an antisemitic world view, but much more commonplace are individuals who draw on the well of antisemitism within the culture. And that’s what we see in antisemitism around Israel.
One thing shown by multiple opinion surveys in the United States, Germany, and in the U.K. and elsewhere, is that the percentage of committed ideological antisemites is relatively small, but the diffusion of negative stereotypes and narratives about Jews through the culture is much higher and much wider. At certain moments, people draw on these, especially at political flash points when these ideas appear to be useful, and when they appear to explain something. Yes, there are antisemites, sort of ideologically committed individuals and groups who have an antisemitic world view, but much more commonplace are individuals who draw on the well of antisemitism within the culture. And that’s what we see in antisemitism around Israel.
― Josh in Chicago, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 23:09 (six months ago) link
Tied in with the second is probably linking anyone Jewish to Israel and its policies, and the implicit suggestion that they support those policies. There is a Jewish deli in West Hollywood which was tagged with anti-israel graffiti, pro-palestinian slogans, etc. perhaps not anti-semitic in another context but in that context it feels quite obviously to be the case.
― omar little, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 23:16 (six months ago) link
Getting more into the Jews vs "Zionists" thing, one popular strain of thought that comes up a lot in the context of Palestine is that European Jews are not "real Jews" - they are Khazars or some other similar theory. This is again a good example of the messiness of anti-semitism vs anti-zionism. Part of the reason this theory is so popular is that it is seen as undermining the idea that "Zionists" have any actual historical connection to Israel. But it also bleeds into the idea that European Jews are "not real Jews" but rather evil "zionists."
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Tuesday, 7 November 2023 23:22 (six months ago) link
I thought the New Yorker interview (David Feldman, the director of the Birkbeck Institute for the Study of Antisemitism, at Birkbeck College, University of London) I posted was full of interesting observations.
Agreed. Although Feldman didn't answer some of Chotiner's questions in less than 30 seconds or in the form of a haiku, he seems to have kept a sense of humor.
― felicity, Tuesday, 7 November 2023 23:37 (six months ago) link
European Jews are not "real Jews" - they are Khazars or some other similar theory
Ah! But what about all those Lost Tribes of Israel? Chances are that the Khazars were just Jews who got lost for a while and then suddenly remembered about that covenant thing. Makes as much sense as the "not real Jews" theory.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 8 November 2023 00:05 (six months ago) link
There’s plenty of historical record and genetic evidence of ancient Israelite migration to Europe, as well as slaves taken by Romans. It’s not some great mystery why there are Jews in Europe.
― longtime caller, first time listener (man alive), Wednesday, 8 November 2023 01:02 (six months ago) link
I dug into that Khazars thing recently. Saw it mentioned in the context of the 10 Myths about Israel book and got curious. Read a bit more about the source of it, and there's this ironic thing that it's from somebody trying to use that fact to COUNTER semitism. Regardless, I think it's been debunked by DNA testing. Ashkenazi jews (of which I am one) share enough DNA with mizrahi and sephardi jews and not with "khazars". Personally I feel about as much connection to the holy land as I do to the eastern europe from which my great-great grandparents fled, which is very little, and mostly heritage-wise feel connected to the tri-state area, so that's my homeland.
― dan selzer, Wednesday, 8 November 2023 02:28 (six months ago) link
The history of cranks who theorize what happened to the Lost Tribes of Israel is both voluminous and foolish, occupying the same precincts as cranks who seek a perpetual motion machine. Ashkenazi Jews are as Jewish as any other Jews. Anyone who says different is just huffing moonbeams.
― more difficult than I look (Aimless), Wednesday, 8 November 2023 03:32 (six months ago) link
the khazar thing is something I've only ever seen from neo-nazis and conspiracy theorists if it has been adopted more broadly that's really unfortunate
― Left, Wednesday, 8 November 2023 05:57 (six months ago) link
My family are a mix of Sephardis and Ashkenazis and Dutch Catholics and Muslim (peace is possible!) although everyone is non-practicing. My homeland is the entire Northwest branch of the Northern Line.
I was at a family wedding this weekend and dreaded the inevitable Israeli national anthem section. Pleasingly it was accompanied by a tentative speech with a lot of qualifiers.
― Chuck_Tatum, Wednesday, 8 November 2023 09:29 (six months ago) link
I was at a family wedding this weekend and dreaded the inevitable Israeli national anthem section.
emi, is that a common thing?
― Daniel_Rf, Wednesday, 8 November 2023 10:38 (six months ago) link
Israel never qualifying for international football tournaments (altho they've a chance of making next summer's euros, as if that wasn't shaping up to be moody enough) means I've never heard the anthem. Any good, or a dreadful dirge like most?
― not anti-Skibidi Toilet per se (Bananaman Begins), Wednesday, 8 November 2023 12:29 (six months ago) link
Scotland have played Israel about 10 times in the last 4 years so I've almost certainly heard it.
― The First Time Ever I Saw Gervais (Tom D.), Wednesday, 8 November 2023 12:41 (six months ago) link
The Israeli national anthem is iirc pretty sad (surprise). Fun fact: it apparently did not officially become the national anthem until November 2004.
― Josh in Chicago, Wednesday, 8 November 2023 13:03 (six months ago) link
it’s a really beautiful song
― is he disgruntled adrian? (voodoo chili), Wednesday, 8 November 2023 13:08 (six months ago) link
Yeah, I think of "forked tongue" as a Biblical reference, the Garden of Eden and all that. I'm also not aware of it as specifically antisemitic — and a quick Google bears that out — but it is ascribing Satanic characteristics that feel close to horns etc. I would think best avoided under the circumstances, but I agree it's not a blatant invocation.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 16 May 2024 14:41 (two weeks ago) link
fwiw I'm not sure anyone was trying to be funny. Just acknowledging the lineage and persistence of the tropes. But fair points.― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, May 16, 2024 7:05 AM bookmarkflaglink
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, May 16, 2024 7:05 AM bookmarkflaglink
tipsy, thank you.
I said "I wonder" since I wanted to leave open the possibility of mere thoughtlessness. You answered that.
What for you is "just" hypothetical abstract, language is for the target, when repeated, circulated, and shared online on a massive scale, especially with "we" and "them" in-group-out-group signaling, something that causes real psychological and emotional harm. It's dehumanizing language which has been used for centuries to justify violence against Jews. It's a mark of privilege that you don't need to consider it after you made your post whereas here I was carrying it around a week later wondering whether it's worth the typical ILX knee-jerk backlash to register my objection.
Antisemitism is in the air we breathe. It wears a deep groove in the history of Western thought. Antisemitism offers many pleasures: the lure of tradition, the thrill of transgressiveness, the high of moral superiority. I understand a lot of this is passed on thoughtlessly or without conscious bad intent. The way to respond is to make people aware of what they are doing and ask them to be more conscious.
You'd think lawyers would have evolved, but this is the crap we are still dealing with in my profession:
Two ex-Lewis Brisbois partners were pushed out of the boutique they started after their former firm released racist, sexist and antisemitic emails the partners wrote while employed there.The remaining leaders at the boutique, which was formed by John Barber and Jeff Ranen, will start a new firm, said Tim Graves, chief executive officer at the operation that had been named Barber Ranen.“Effective immediately, the firm has requested and accepted the resignations of John Barber and Jeffrey Ranen,” Graves said in a statement Monday. “The remaining equity partners express their disappointment and disdain for the language Mr. Barber and Mr. Ranen used.”The partners’ former firm, Lewis Brisbois, shared a tranche of emails spanning more than a decade that show Barber and Ranen making disparaging remarks about female associates, clients and others, as well as using racist, antisemitic and anti-LGBTQ slurs.“We are resigning from Barber Ranen effective immediately in order to allow our friends and colleagues to continue on without the cloud of our conduct hanging over them,” Ranen and Barber said in a joint statement.They added, “We are ashamed of the words we wrote, and we are deeply sorry.”Barber and Ranen were California-based leaders of Lewis Brisbois’s labor and employment group until last month, when they broke off from firm and took nearly 140 lawyers with them.Lewis Brisbois opened an investigation into the two partners after receiving an “anonymous complaint” following their departure, the firm said in a statement Monday.“Because the vast majority of these emails were sent in private between John Barber and Jeff Ranen, neither the Lewis Brisbois HR department nor the executive committee were made aware of their behavior until after the anonymous complaint first came in,” the firm’s statement said.In one email, after Ranen complained about a female colleague’s overtime request, Barber told him to “kill her” through a sexual act. In another, Ranen mocked the religious practices of a Jewish attorney who asked not to be emailed during the sabbath.
The remaining leaders at the boutique, which was formed by John Barber and Jeff Ranen, will start a new firm, said Tim Graves, chief executive officer at the operation that had been named Barber Ranen.
“Effective immediately, the firm has requested and accepted the resignations of John Barber and Jeffrey Ranen,” Graves said in a statement Monday. “The remaining equity partners express their disappointment and disdain for the language Mr. Barber and Mr. Ranen used.”
The partners’ former firm, Lewis Brisbois, shared a tranche of emails spanning more than a decade that show Barber and Ranen making disparaging remarks about female associates, clients and others, as well as using racist, antisemitic and anti-LGBTQ slurs.
“We are resigning from Barber Ranen effective immediately in order to allow our friends and colleagues to continue on without the cloud of our conduct hanging over them,” Ranen and Barber said in a joint statement.
They added, “We are ashamed of the words we wrote, and we are deeply sorry.”
Barber and Ranen were California-based leaders of Lewis Brisbois’s labor and employment group until last month, when they broke off from firm and took nearly 140 lawyers with them.
Lewis Brisbois opened an investigation into the two partners after receiving an “anonymous complaint” following their departure, the firm said in a statement Monday.
“Because the vast majority of these emails were sent in private between John Barber and Jeff Ranen, neither the Lewis Brisbois HR department nor the executive committee were made aware of their behavior until after the anonymous complaint first came in,” the firm’s statement said.
In one email, after Ranen complained about a female colleague’s overtime request, Barber told him to “kill her” through a sexual act. In another, Ranen mocked the religious practices of a Jewish attorney who asked not to be emailed during the sabbath.
Many states have training mandates for lawyers that require them to complete continuing education courses to topics related to ethics and bias. California requires lawyers to complete at least 25 hours of training every three years.Emails from Barber and Ranen demonstrate the little quality control that state bar associations perform on these trainings, said Rima Sirota, a Georgetown University law professor.“This kind of stuff is unethical,” Sirota said. “Most companies wouldn’t want to be associating with a firm with that kind of atmosphere.”
Emails from Barber and Ranen demonstrate the little quality control that state bar associations perform on these trainings, said Rima Sirota, a Georgetown University law professor.
“This kind of stuff is unethical,” Sirota said. “Most companies wouldn’t want to be associating with a firm with that kind of atmosphere.”
https://news.bloomberglaw.com/business-and-practice/ex-lewis-brisbois-partners-quit-firm-after-racist-sexist-emails
These weren't some white collar criminal defense attorneys. They were leaders of the labor and employment law group.
It really pains me to see this being taught to younger generations.
― felicity, Thursday, 16 May 2024 15:37 (two weeks ago) link
Yep, totally hear you. My own comment about drinking blood was a shorthand nod toward the way QAnon has updated and recirculated blood-libel slander and that all of these things are connected. But I realize that things that sound one way in conversation can scan differently in text. The point of all it being that antisemitism remains endemic in our social and political rhetoric.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 16 May 2024 16:10 (two weeks ago) link
The point of all it being that antisemitism remains endemic in our social and political rhetoric.
Thank you. And my point is we don't need to see a demonstration of the dog whistling to see that antisemitism in the air like wild yeast.
You can refer to "blood libels" and tropes, like the N-word, without inhabiting the role of a person who says slurs yourself.
― felicity, Thursday, 16 May 2024 16:18 (two weeks ago) link
I hear and affirm.
― a man often referred to in the news media as the Duke of Saxony (tipsy mothra), Thursday, 16 May 2024 16:19 (two weeks ago) link
I am glad that we can all be gracious about this. The jokes actually did make me feel uncomfortable in the context of this thread… says the goy with a Jewish best friend
― sarahell, Thursday, 16 May 2024 18:34 (two weeks ago) link
curious about this author, haven't read this one, plot summary gave me pausehttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Hallows%27_Eve_(novel)
― famous instagram dog (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 29 May 2024 15:56 (four days ago) link
reminded me of weird antisemitic tropes popping up in Chesterton's (who I don't otherwise like) "The Man Who Was Thursday" (which was still v entertaining)
― famous instagram dog (Shakey Mo Collier), Wednesday, 29 May 2024 15:58 (four days ago) link
a Jewish magician, born in Paris at the end of the 18th century, with an urge to master the worldtruly vintage reaction
― difficult listening hour, Thursday, 30 May 2024 00:01 (three days ago) link
what can I say, the peculiarities and specific manifestations of UK anti-semitism often take me aback.
but obviously it's basically impossible to imagine a context where valiant Christian theologians combatting an evil Jewish magician bent on world domination is not anti-semitic
― famous instagram dog (Shakey Mo Collier), Thursday, 30 May 2024 16:45 (three days ago) link