one flew over seppuku's nest - a thread for SHOGUN on FX (2024)

I guess you'd then have to hire different (and substantially less well-known) actors? And, speaking for some of the people I know who are watching this, I can imagine the mix of fluent Japanese and presumably less-than-perfect Portuguese would be a bridge too far for some viewers.

My complaint was mostly tongue in cheek. Thankfully I am broad minded enough that having to watch a show in English isn't a bridge too far for me yet. ;)

Speaking of killing off obnoxious white guys, wasn't there an adaptation of Silence where the priests were speaking Portuguese instead of English-speaking star wars actors?

My complaint was mostly tongue in cheek.

You young people with your humour.

I often forget when I'm watching it that the people who are speaking English are not meant to be speaking English at all, except when they are. At least they didn't do the Warrior/Hunt for Red October thing.

The controlled mood of the most recent episode was quite something.

i loved the perspective shift to Mariko and Ruri/Lady Ochiba

every week i am absolutely glued to the screen, it’s good!!

> wasn't there an adaptation of Silence where the priests were speaking Portuguese instead of English-speaking star wars actors?

there was an earlier version by Shinoda in the 70s,

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt0067755/?ref_=fn_al_tt_18

man this show really knows how to end a goddamn episode

this week: fucking excellent again, zero notes plz continue

Yup, that was an episode of excellent tension building -- and indeed amazing final 'score' into the end credits.

Thought next week was the finale for some reason but stoked to discover it's actually a 10 episode season.

Toranaga at the end of every episode pic.twitter.com/aYU52JZQqd

— 𝕯𝖎𝖑𝖉𝖔 𝕭𝖆𝖌𝖌𝖎𝖓𝖘 (𝘚𝘩𝘰̄𝘨𝘶𝘯 𝘦𝘳𝘢) (@EmmaTolkin) April 8, 2024

lmao its v true

show really leaning into that thread title now

also idk if i have the fortitude to ride out Toranaga’s 12-D chess jesus christ

Yeah this is all getting insane, in the best way. I thought the tea ceremony scene was intense but then the council and THEN the aftermath scene, good god. I'm glad I don't remember much from the original miniseries about how it all ended because the ramping up!

tea ceremony was so beautiful omg

Also, hadn't realized that Hiroyuki Sanada and Tokuma Nishioka have been acting buds forever now! Great article about that and this episode, spoilers obv.

oh very cool, didn’t know they had that connection!

when is this wee proddy fuc carking it. vile anti-catholic bigotry abounding

great show though apart from that. tea ceremony scene in this epi was

I really hate that fucking actor playing the proddy troglodyte, but otherwise the cast are great.

I enjoy that both performance and writing make him seem like a clueless, entitled English tourist. It's sad that he ends up smarter than he seems but the scenes of him in full bluster being ignored by everyone are hilarious.

it might just be how it was on the set, rest of the cast ignoring entitled English actor's bluster

Kashigi is a compelling and amusing character, he has this stoic loyalty to Toranaga but also slates him behind his back and makes a snarky comment about his son dying a stupid death!

The pronunciation of "cockroach" this episode was A+++ lols

another excellent episode, the scene between toranaga and hiromatsu was the best of the series so far

also chuckled at the scene when the portugeuse priest realizes his prized church will be located next to a brothel

Gotta sin to get saved

yeah that was great

I've been holding off on the official podcast because those generally always seem like so much promo (and I'm sure that's the case with this too) but I'm interested enough to give them an ear after the series wraps up.

they are intetesting: a lot of interview w different actors, historian, set decorator, stunt coordinator .. a lot of variety. My only small quibble is it’s too short, given the richness of the show & level of detail all these folks bring to it, could do with longer conversations in some places

Hahaha...you know, I *thought* that subtitle font they're using felt familiar.

wow, surprises round every corner

Starting to get more interviews and features from everyone popping up

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/general-news/shogun-tadanobu-asano-kashigi-yabushige-interview-1235870734/

https://www.gq.com/story/shoguns-hatamoto-cosmo-jarvis

https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/anna-sawai-shogun-little-gold-men-awards-insider

Okay yeah, he would do that. Per the Sawai interview:

Q. How did you find your scenes with Cosmo, bringing out this side of her that is really tartly funny and mysterious?

A. It was very organic because we shot it chronologically. The first time that she does meet (Blackthorne), I didn’t know Cosmo too well. I was still trying to figure him out. And as we shot, I would open up to him and he would to me. Cosmo is very different from me. I saw him as John Blackthorne most of the time. His voice was different. I only heard his real voice a couple of months ago for press.

Finally caught up. Such a stunning production. I have to rewatch some of the scenes since I’ve been missing bits of dialog while marveling at the beauty of the shots fabrics faces etc.

i know i keep saying this but omg this fucking show

i am going to need to lie down in a darkened room for a week to get over all of this emotional intensity & sadness

GREAT episode! (#9)

intense

What a shot to end on.

JFC the last scene

caught up with this series over the last week or so and i love it, it's a real treat to have a compelling story so lavishly depicted - the production design and the costumes are gorgeous

tadonobu asano, hiroyuki sanada and anna sawai are obv the mvps but i think cosmo jarvis is really good at playing someone who is constantly having to listen carefully and search people's faces for meaning, which is kind of a thankless onscreen task he pulls off v convincingly

i also enjoy his very blocky screen presence, he's shaped like a minecraft character

one thing i love about the way it looks is how the wide-angle shots often have a subtle fisheye curve to them, with straight lines bowing at the edges of the frame, and how the out-of-focus areas in some closeups have a similarly striking circular bokeh, very different from the way modern lenses usually look

i'd love to hear from the production team as to why they chose to shoot things that way - maybe the distortions and imperfections do help give it the kind of 'visual antique' feeling like tracer suggested upthread when he noted the heavy vignettes that sometimes show up at the edge of the frame

This article has background on some of the production and cinematography choices including use of anamorphic lenses

https://www.theringer.com/tv/2024/4/8/24124015/shogun-cinematography-tv-background-blur-anamorphic-lens-effect

On a merrier note, I have amazed/befuddled my podcast cohosts with the fact that this existed:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sh%C5%8Dgun:_The_Musical

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lQ_GcrzB_Pg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oJaU0PO5bw

well i set a record for myself by crying through 90% of the finale

"No translator" 😩

absolutely gutted me

Spectacular, brilliant in its perfect underplaying. How deft was that opening flash-forward alone! (Though as my cohost Jared rightly observed, "I think it’s interesting that the scenes of an old Blackthorne seem to be fantasy rather than an actual flash forward." And how to address the 'it all ends with a big battle' cliche too. But the clifftop scene, well. And Fuji and her own arc getting attention -- that was a good way to tie it all back in to the start, an underscoring of all the cost.

Anyway, just bank all the Emmys and be done with it.

It was really beautiful the way Mariko still was so present throughout the finale, as though she’s just off-screen or something

And yeah re Blackthorne
my theory last night was confirmed by showrunner ie that the opening was a dream Blackthorne has of himself as an old deathbed colonialist with weapons of “savages” having not taught his offspring of the actual people or where they were from… and so all of his actions in the episode culminating with the confrontation w Torunaga was his attempt to “kill” the possibility of him living out that path, and to finally commit himself engage w Japanese in a more meaningful way instead. well, as meaningful as he can manage, anyway.

Mm. Having it end where you don't know 'the' ending for any of them is just...smart. The history is unwritten.

Such unexpectedly beautiful scenes between Blackthorn and Fuji. Awesome finale.

also, real talk, that had to have been an unrealistic amount of seppuku?

xpost gives him a pretext to weed out known traitors

re men's health article, I was really expecting "Say Sayonara to Belly Fat! Producers of Shogun reveal 10 Supplements from Feudal Japan that will Get You More Cut than Ritual Disemboweling in time for Samurai Summer!" Teen Vogue-level dissonance.

A pound of seaweed a day keeps the goiters away.

I wish this show could have gotten a few more episodes; there were dramatic moments that would have been stronger if we'd gotten more time with those characters. I went back and forth on Cosmo Jarvis' acting too, liking and disliking his acting at various points. But between some phenomenal acting from Sanada, Sawai, and others, and such beautiful costumes, visuals, and music, this was certainly a success

i think Jarvis was good, he suited the character & based on the overall arc i think that he served the show really well

Andy Greenwald on The Watch podcast on Ringer had a hilarious Blackthorne impression on their weekly Shogun recaps that honestly i’m going to miss lol

I'm sure some of his overplaying was intentional on his or the directors' parts. it stands out sharply among the subtlety of most of the other roles. I think I'd still have preferred a different actor in the role though

I came around to like Jarvis as Blackthorne. I kinda think we went meant to dislike him for the first several episodes and Jarvis did a good job being an arrogant oaf. To VG’s point, he suited the character arc.

It was weird to see a little Requiem For A Dream callback pop up in the middle of this.

Meanwhile, I've been reading up on the historical figures the story is based on. Interesting detail in Aijin's wikipedia entry:

At this time, Adams also attempted to send letters to his family and friends in England through the Dutch, but Quaeckerneck and Santvoort did not deliver the letters in order to avoid making Adams's fate known to the English East India Company, which was becoming a trading rival to the Dutch.

Yeah I found this dope-looking book on Adams but it's out of print and copies are going for like $40

https://www.japansociety.org.uk/review?review=546

All of the Shoguns! https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/shogun-season-2-and-3-in-the-works-fx-hulu-1235901617/amp/

hmmmmmm

I feel like the wrong lesson has been learned here.

plenty of history left to draw from, hopefully they can distill a story out of it. Would love it if undermining Toranaga's mystique carried through from the last episode of s1.

Might work if they do a Fargo approach - different cast, another self-contained story, same era and themes. The Continued Adventures of Blackthorne would be pretty disappointing.

Yeah heard some people suggest just adapting Tai-pan or one of Clavell's other books, and make Shogun an anthology. But with Sanada already signed in, I'm pretty sure it will be a continuation of the story. Apparently the real life "Blackthorne" stayed in Japan many more years anyhow