Norm Macdonald Returns to Television!

comedians = bastards.

his set was gold.

apparently he was jay leno in the late shift. wow. he must be funny if he can play jay leno.

I think we want to feel like there's something unique and spontaneous about a stand-up performance, and the comics comply. Bits beginning with "On the way over here..." probably did not take place recently, if they actually happened to the comic at all -- but we think to ourselves, "He just came up with that!" I'm sure stand-ups also have standard comments about audiences they make with EVERY crowd but are delivered in such a way as to seem spontaneous and specific.

I've been hosting this variety show for the last couple of months, and invited back a stand-up comic to test out some new material; in his second appearance, he slipped in some old material that, the second time around, didn't work at all. For instance, his reaction of mock-outrage at one point seemed affected -- and it's because I was aware of it now as an "act."

as for the talk shows, those are SOOOO not-spontaneous. the host is usually just feeding lines to their guests. it's entertainment. the real chitchat happens during the commercials.

But in what context? I think what threw you is that you thought that Norm had cast aside his "stage persona" when talking to you off-stage. But suppose he wants to keep it on the entire time he's in the club; no matter where he goes in the club, his role is the performer. Same with on TV talk shows. In other words, it may not be a matter of genuine vs. non-genuine as much as whether you're Norm McDonald or "Norm McDonald."

Absolutely classic. Andy Dick was so good

"Chicken! Steak! Has never tasted so good!"

Was thinking recently what a lost opportunity it was not having him play J. Jonah Jameson in one of the shitty Spider-Man movies.

Not angry enough

J K Simmons as JJJ possibly the most perfectly cast Marvel Universe character ever tbh

Is he still playing him? Doesn't really matter tbh I just want a What If JJJ who's kind of a sarcastic dick about the existence of Spider-Man

New special on Netflix (basically him on a webcam), followed by Letterman, O'Brien, Molly Shannon, David Spade and (of course) Dave Chapelle talking about how great he was.

the format wasnt as weird as i was expecting. it certainly didnt feel like standup, but as conan says in the aftershow thing it felt like one of his talkshow appearances where he just ignored the host & went off on extended riffs. with the obvious exception of one unfortunate bit, i liked it. ofc would have been 20 times funnier to get to see him do it in front of an audience, teasing them with it, pushing & pulling their reactions, etc.

thought the discussion afterwards was pretty expendable, chapelle-averse viewers wouldnt be missing anything by just hitting stop after the norm part

the biggest laugh during the panel was when i realized david spade was sitting in a non-panel chair and probably only there because of sandler.

chapelle-averse

Bombing like this in front of a crowd of this kind of person is probably one of the greatest achievements in art. Making a fool out of yourself in front of a crowd of 30 year old white women trying to desperately hold onto the nostalgia of their youth is the top of the mountain https://t.co/K4RS1G8B4J

— ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴘᴀʟ, ᴅᴀᴋᴏᴛᴀ (@DEEP_RED_BELLS) August 18, 2023

this was under a video of DJ Crazy Times performing to an unenthusiastic looking audience, I think this is almost right and that what made Norm Macdonald unusual was that he successfully gave the impression (accurate or not) that he really didn't care if the audience found him funny and was primarily entertaining himself. Most stand-ups have this palpable neediness which can be off-putting (or this confrontational fuck you stance towards the audience which feels like a disguised form of the same neediness), but Norm came across like he was actually indifferent to whether the crowd thought he was funny or not.

I saw an interview with Chris Elliot where he talked about how the first time he appeared on screen on Late Night with Letterman he said something that made Dave laugh, and that the fact he made Dave laugh made the audience laugh, and that his technique over the next few years, given that he was starting out and didn't really know at that point how to play to an audience directly, was to try and make Letterman laugh because he knew that would get the audience to laugh as well, and that disconnection from the audience is part of what makes those Late Night bits so funny, like a comedy version of 'we just make music for ourselves and if anyone else likes it that's a bonus'. I guess it's maybe just a version of deadpan, where the comedian if funnier if they look like they're not trying to get you to laugh?

sorry, that was the wrong tweet, supposed to be this one:

Oh dude that's it, thats why I think this dude has popped off so hard, he understands that Norm school of comedy where completely losing some of the crowd makes you so much better for the rest of them

— ʏᴏᴜʀ ᴘᴀʟ, ᴅᴀᴋᴏᴛᴀ (@DEEP_RED_BELLS) August 18, 2023

what is that even a response to?

I don’t think the TikTok dork doing hacky “lost in translation” jokes is Neil Hamburger.

Trying to put some meta spin on a guy coasting off ‘90s nostalgia is not it

I don’t think it’s quite right that Norm didn’t care if people laughed, it’s more that he had the confidence to persevere with a bit even when the audience might be struggling to catch up.

Norm has really been a victim of posthumous projection and revisionism from all ends of the internet. I worried he’s going to end up a Bill Hicks figure if he hasn’t already

people doing that with comedians generally is so weird

Norm seems very unlike Hicks, Carlin and others like that. A comedy for comedy’s sake guy rather than a cultural critic.

Which is why his stuff holds up better imo

I'll take Carlin over Norm any day

I don't understand, is the Jonas Bros supposed to be there or not supposed to be there.

Because it completely fits in with the rest of the discussion.

Dance like no one gives a shit.

Norm himself has drawn parallels between his compulsions as a gambling addict who doubles-down when possibly losing their bankroll, and his compulsions to double-down on a bad/awkward bit if he's losing the audience.

Norm is nothing like Hicks, idk if he's ever said anything about him directly but I know he really hated that particular style of comedy. the big difference between him and other lionized comedians is that instead of wanting to be the smartest guy in the room Norm wanted to come off as the dumbest, which is why he can land jokes like "You know who Germany wanted to go to war with?? The WORLD"

but yeah I think Neil Hamburger is a much better analogue to what the thread bump is about; when Norm "bombs" you can still see and hear parts of the audience laughing, when Neil does it the audience is actively hostile, and he antagonizes them right back, which makes the whole experience really funny if you're in the know

Norm is exactly like Hicks in that that a certain subset of the internet sees him as a libertarian/right wing free-speech hero and gravitate towards his edgiest material

well by that measure the next Bill Hicks is clearly Dave Chappelle, a dude whose entire act now is just "let me tell it like it is" and then complaining that people get upset by his comedy

whenever Norm gets asked a question about politics he generally responsed with amusment that anyone would care what he thinks, because he openly admitted he doesn't really follow it. he probably has said some things about free speech and I know he defended Shane Gillis when he got fired from SNL but if you watch his stuff it's seriously like 0% of his act

I'm not saying anything about his comedy, I'm just saying what his legacy is becoming among reddit people

Norm is exactly like Hicks in that that a certain subset of the internet sees him as a libertarian/right wing free-speech hero and gravitate towards his edgiest material

― sean paul akerman (Whiney G. Weingarten), Monday, 21 August 2023 15:33 (one hour ago) bookmarkflaglink

this isn't really what being like someone is

what is that even a response to?

― budo jeru, Saturday, August 19, 2023 9:21 AM (two days ago) bookmarkflaglink

what his legacy is becoming among reddit people

you can just not care

It was a response to a comment on that DJ Crazy Times video

oh

way off the mark imo.

Norms “comedians are not philosophers” take needs more airtime. Big fan of his controversial opinion that comedians should tell jokes

Although I think norm did break his own rules in his post-humous Netflix special. That one did not rub me the right way.

Norm seems less alt-right-free-speech adjacent in his comedy, and more dirtbag-left-let’s-make-fun-of-the-ludicrousness-blinders-the-liberal-media-have-on-without-being-a-redneck-per-se. That, mixed with enjoying shocking people is the totality of his edge (which yeah, I guess “shocking people” is a bit of an alt-right signifier these days).

His appearance on “the view” sums this all up.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3PP_SWHUQQ

Norm seems less alt-right-free-speech adjacent in his comedy, and more dirtbag-left-let’s-make-fun-of-the-ludicrousness-blinders-the-liberal-media-have-on-without-being-a-redneck-per-se.

I love Norm and I know that "dirtbag left" is probably shorthand here, but it's worth saying that Norm MacDonald was not in any way shape or form of "the left"

hes not much of a political thinker at all so I kinda wonder if he became that way because of the particular era of SNL he was on

I guess it feels like everyone is misunderstanding Whiney here, he's talking about how the work of a comedian is interpreted and how/where it "lives on." Sure, one could just ignore it, that's totally a valid choice.

But I'd guess most people would agree that, on some level, it can be interesting to talk about how someone's body of work is received.

well not amongst the biggest dipshits in the YouTube comment section

I guess it feels like everyone is misunderstanding Whiney here

read that again and possibly consider whether "everyone" misunderstanding something is not actually a signifier of whether the point is well made or possibly just wrong altogether

My point is pretty unassailable if you’ve spent five minutes on the aforementioned subreddits and YouTube comment sections

So that’s why it didn’t make sense

Anyway, thank you intheblanks

not saying you're wrong whiney im saying its a weird angle to insist on, its a small angle but insofar as it goes sure revisionism from youtube comments is a wild beast and whence it takes us none living can say

im not sure anybody misunderstood the point but it isnt afaict the discussion ppl were having?

Judd Apatow posted this:

We need your photos and videos of Norm Macdonald for a documentary we are creating for @netflix. So if you happen to have anything you think might be helpful please e mail us at NormMacdonalddoc AT gmail DOT com. If you just know about any interviews or interesting videos you think we may not have heard about or be able to find ourselves— that would also be very helpful. Or just tell us your favorite Norm moments. The link is in the bio link tree. Thank you!!!

Bio link tree is here.