Getting kind of baby crazy

Maybe become a foster parent for a bit? Host an exchange student? It's temp!

Wait, didn't you just get married? Give yourself a bit of time to totally adjust to that before the babies.

Working in a maternity store could make it hard, though. Try reading about all the things pregnant bodies go through. That can be a bit off-putting.

(I'm kind of teasing there... but seriously, kids are permanent and they *do* change your relationship. I'm still realizing this and my oldest is 10!)

Fucking A, tho, I never thought this would happen to me! WTF is this????? Will life ever stop throwing me vexing surprises? Will the PMZ be just as annoying?

Pre-Menstrual Zings?

Post-menopausal zest

Dude Sara I know on the real, I need to be talked down here!

Babies look like little Trolls.

Read the placenta-eating thread!

xp Hmmmmmm... okay.

They're super expensive! And they sleep a lot at first, which seems okay, except they keep waking up all the time! And it's impossible to arrange to go out with your non-babied friends anymore!

(how am I doing?)

Except that you can't do anything as funky to their hair. And they will target you with the whole spectrum of bodily emissions.

(xx-post)

I have a variety of pregnancy and labor/delivery horror stories that happened to me, but I kind of feel like I've talked about them to everyone on earth already, and also none of that nonsense happens to anyone but me.

BUT IT COULD!

xp Tuomas is right. Projectile vomiting!

Just read a family circus book - that should tamp down the urge for a while.

Also, you're way young - there's time.

My favorite joke in the entire world is like this:

A woman out in farm country was going into labor and she & her husband had no way to get to a hospital or doctor in time for the baby to come out. Not knowing what to do, the husband calls his bishop for advice.

"You've helped birth a cow before, right?" asked the bishop. "Just do the same thing."

About an hour later the bishop's phone rings with another call from the husband. The bishop asked if everything was going well. "Oh, the birth went fine," said the husband. "I'm just having a hard time getting her to eat the placenta."

***

I head this in church!

Just read a family circus book - that should tamp down the urge for a while.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

xp What kind of church do you go to?!

let's see pregnancy/babies downsides - girl babies can have little periods within days of being born (and ooze milk from their nipples! it's called "witches milk"), newborns shit STICKY BLACK TAR, they do not understand diurnal sleeping patterns, vaginal birth can do a fair bit of damage to your ladybusiness (stitching up tears and whatnot), you can only sleep in like one position after a certain point in the pregnancy etc etc

http://www.truemomconfessions.com
Although I've never doubted my childfree-ness, this site really reinforces my decision!

also think about feeding a baby every 2 hours - TWENTY-FOUR HOURS A DAY - for the first month or so. (are you good at sleeping in half-hour intervals?)

Episiotomy is really unappealing.

Maybe I should watch Eraserhead again?

Babies are awesome you should have one ASAP

Shakey I had to do that sleep-style when I worked graveyard, which was probably 3% harder than baby-owning/making, and it was crazymaking!

Pylon Gnasher who are you?

Episiotomies don't happen as often as they used to. That doesn't mean your junk will emerge unscathed, though.

xp RE: the stitches, etc. Tbh, sex is not that great for, like, A YEAR after you give birth. (Personal experience possibly d/t breastfeeding, too, but still... STITCHES!)

Also, J came so fast that I did not have an episiotomy; I just tore. (Which sounds scary, but I honestly didn't feel it, even though I had no drugs.)

2-hour feeding schedule esp rocks if your baby can't digest breastmilk and needs to be held upright for 30-minutes after feeding - so you feed it for half an hour, hold it upright for half an hour, put it down to sleep for half an hour, and then it starts screaming bloody murder for half an hour - rinse and repeat

Sara I heard that joke at a church talent show when I was Mormon. I suppose I should say IN a church – it wasn't sermon content. It was a country church & all got mad roffles. Esp me!

I've always I should go to more Mormon events.

They are v interesting!

Just not when told you're following SAINTEN if you don't attend EVERY SINGLE ONE.

I had no idea! Lapsed Catholics are always the last to know.

I guess another thing that would be nice to put off: having my parent's/John's Mormon dad trying to talk us into letting them give little boxing glove the LDS priesthood baby blessing.

That sounds very weird!

I used to worry that my mother would sneak my kids off to have them baptized while I was not around. But it turns out that I needn't have worried; she hates to babysit.

Hmmmmm, definitely focus on the not-sleeping and the expensive parts of having babies. That stuff can put you off indefinitely. I have to buy school supplies for two kids. It's SHOCKING how much crap they need.

think of how much more yr family will want to be around now that you have a young un - honestly both of our sets of parents got totally annoying over the course of their first visits with our wee one and by the end my wife and I were both feeling the "christ why don't you go away so we can just figure out how to be parents without having to get dressed or hold a conversation" vibe

Advantage: living 1300 miles away and my 'rents have to take care of developmentally delayed adults they volunteered to house, which hardly allows them to leave. Wld have to see John's fams a lot tho. This is good point, Shakes.

while I think it's important to try to think rationally about having babies, as a guy I LOVE that girls sometimes get baby crazy (for the obvious reasons)

Not to mention the inevitable pronouncements that you are not parenting correctly. It started for me when my son was born and I breastfed him (heavens!) and chose not to have him cirumcised (shocking!). I think if you asked my parents - or my husband's - you would hear that they were surprised the kids ever managed to learn to talk and walk upright.

xp well, TRYING to get pregnant can be fun. But you can hone your techniques while using birth control, too.

I just read the wikipedia entry for Episiotomy because i didnt know what it was - it made me feel sick to my stomach.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2284/2475345811_bf819d0b32.jpg?v=0

^^^^a fun day home alone with daddy

Hey Abbott, can we swap for a month or so? I'm ready to be childfree for a few weeks. I'm kidding of course. When Ophelia was away for a week, I didn't know how to deal with the freedom and I still have Elisabeth.

That said, things to consider:

well, TRYING to get pregnant can be fun.

No, once you decide to conceive, sex can be somewhat... stressful. But you gotta shake it (in all ways) off.

Pregnancy can and probably WILL suck for a few months. Worrying if the baby will be alright, morning sickness (which lasts ALL DAY,not only in the morning), lasts a few weeks are a total drag (literally and figuratively speaking),.... Also, if you're "lucky" you get to push the baby out THROUGH YOUR VAGINA. Greatest thing EVER (I am understating this) but also scariest thing ever. Post partum can beeven more painful. If you don't have post partum, you'll have the lighter form, baby blues. Hormones go fucking with your head, yo.

Breastfeeding can be extremely painful. For me it was three weeks of torture: bleeding and sore and VERY painful nipples. (Even showering hurt.) Secondly if you breastfeed, you can't call on hubby to feed the nighttimes. If I recall correctly you have migraine attacks, right? Well, try breastfeeding every couple of hours with a migraine attack. That said, I HEART BREASTFEEDING.

Babies sleep TONS, only not when you want'em too. Funny but oh so true. Goodbye sex life for a couple of months. This, added with the ton of other things, REALLY tests your relationship. Read about celebs having a baby and a couple of months later they call it quits. Rest assured that screaming kid had something to do with it. So yeah you won't be able to sleep late much. I actually consider sleeping until seven a blessing now. I don't think I've done this the last nine months. Hmm. Nope, don't think I have. I usually go for a walk around six-ish.

Parenting is, especially the first few weeks, forever doubting and worrying. Actually, I don't think I will actually stop worrying. Once you master something, you don't need it anymore and HELLO new thing to tackle.

That said, children are awesome. They change your life and it will never be the same. Ever.
Before you ruled your world. After you have to move your little ego aside and let the kid run your planet. This is a shock but once you're over it, man oh man, is your world so much more filled. :-)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/princessparkle/2597059938/in/set-72157603526943427/

^^^the joys of irresponsible parenting

er http://www.flickr.com/photos/princessparkle/2597059938/in/set-72157603526943427/

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3239/2597059938_3bcee5cf8e.jpg?v=0

No, once you decide to conceive, sex can be somewhat... stressful.

Also true; I just never had that experience.

Goodbye sex life for a couple of months.

My youngest is going to be 6 in a couple of weeks and I feel like we've just got this worked out again! They are now both sleeping well. Yay! But it's taken 10 YEARS to get this subject back to where it should be.

I haven't had 8 hours of sleep (straight) for about 11 months. Only last week or so have I been able to sleep about five to six hours.(Mostly with waking up once or twice in the night though.) Trust me, this fucks with your head in a rrreally bad way.

OMG Sara your breastfeeding was a shocker? I thought anyone who even talked about not doing it got lynched by the La Leche League.

that picture is very very funny

Yeah, we're on kid #3 and I think my wife hasn't slept 8 hours straight in 8 years now

xp My mom is from North Dakota and had babies in the 70s; I don't think she knew anyone who breastfed before I did it.

Also, I hung out with La Leche League a lot, but I never felt totally comfortable there. I vaccinate my kids and - even when I didn't get them - I wanted drugs for childbirth. At least in my liberal little town, LLL is pretty hardcore into the "natural" stuff. (Oh, and I used disposable diapers, too!)

yeah, I'd be pretty late

One thing I have (kinda) noticed, by the way: I spent a long time thinking I wasn't particularly good with or into kids based mostly on all my interactions with them being the kind of fleeting and awkward things where you're very sure parents and older people are watching your interaction with the kid, so you just nod politely and try to get out of there -- it's strikingly different, though, when you start being around the children of people in your peer group, and feel like you have some kind of standing to interact with the kid however you want, without having the whole thing vigilantly observed or feeling self-conscious about it.

^^^ i didn't think kids were awesome and fun until i spent 8 hours a day being in charge of a bunch of 4 year olds. not worrying about parental judgement makes things a lot easier

the weirdest thing to me with non-parents is this sorta assumption that sleeplessness/diaper changings/tantrums etc. is like the sum total of parenting, that once you have a kid that's all you deal with. They seem to forget how quickly kids grow up - like within a year of being an immobile baloney loaf that can't do anything besides cry and shit, they are walking and talking. And within a couple years after that they are having conversations and doing their own thing, playing games, etc. This time flies by. The "infant" period of child-rearing is really really brief - its like the chronological equivalent of spending a 6 months abroad during college or something.

x-post

"i remember when you were nothing but an immobile baloney loaf. . . now you're graduating from Harvard. . ."

he's consented to be a father, because it would have fewer career complications. Not sure what his plans are for making a living in the future ... I think he doesn't really have one.

stay-at-home dad might work out for him if he's excited about it and mom can tolerate her job. (Except of course she's gonna have to take some time off around the birth.)

You know, I never felt like more of an adult until I had a kid in the house with me.

This is a really good point, and I suspect that as long as I'm childless and living in an apartment, I'm never really going to feel like an adult (even though I just turned 30).

xp Shakey: yesterday he was excited that after two months of attempts, his wife was still not pregnant. I'm sure and he suspects that if he had a kid, he'd be into it, but right now it's basically like he's resigned himself to it and secretly hopes it doesn't happen, but it's something that's really important to his wife, and he wants to stay with her and make her happy.

this will sound harsh but... sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.

xp jaymc: Yeah, that's what I was thinking yesterday. That even though we're in our mid-30s, our lifestyle is pretty much the same as when we were in our mid-20s. We make a bit more money, and have a bit less energy for shows/parties, but we lack most of the signifiers of adulthood that for better or for worse, we associate with our parents. At our ages, they had kids, and owned homes in the burbs and had boring yet decently-paying government jobs, etc.

xp Shakey: That's the thing. They are the third pair of friends in about a year that have embarked on the kid thing. The other two - the guys were really into it. I think the only way it's gonna work for this pair, is if he makes a lot of compromises/changes. Yesterday, he was talking about possibly giving up music and being okay with it, but he goes through phases like that when he feels like he's not getting anywhere. On the other hand, Fred Frith has two kids and is doing fine.

Haha I think babies and toddlers love abstract/analytical discussions, too, by the way, just on a different level.

― nabisco, Wednesday, April 8, 2009 5:44 PM (Yesterday) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

yes. my sister used to nanny for these two fantastic kids and was peppered with questions like, "can a person be allergic to god?"

i totally get why someone would be apprehensive about how a friendship would change after the other friend had kids, though. i am totally self-absorbed, which may explain it.

there's nothing preventing new-ish parents from inviting friends over so they don't lose touch etc. but in my experience infants/toddlers = messy house + parents being tired all the time = not really up for guests & dinner parties.

That's why I've been preparing to have kids for the past five years by being messy and tired around everyone I know.

velko so far it's been just the opposite for me. my son is awesome but i crave the company of my friends the same way i'd crave a big cool glass of water. you need a balance, because it IS quite easy to disappear down a rabbit-hole of self-absorption in one's own child. i can't stress enough how helpful it is to have friends who stay in touch and suggest dinners, outings, girls nights out, etc.

yeah I think you need a little of both - the parents' need opportunities to get out of the house without the kid and be with adults, but they also need friends who are willing and happy to come hang out with them at the house, w/the kid, etc. Its a two-way street.

^ that's what I (with no experience from the parent end, obviously) was trying to get at upthread -- I mean, you don't want your new-parent friend to see you only as some compartmentalized escape from parenting and home

I mean, hell, if a good friend got really into woodworking, I'd expect to see their shop or get shown some new cabinets now and then; similar principle, no?

someone having a baby and someone getting into woodworking are pretty different, in my experience

you're familiar with the word "principle"

i think you're trying to do one of those "nabisco explains it all" type dealies and, sorry, i have friends with babies and friends that make furniture and stuff--two pretty different things

actually--have you read Amis' The Information? one of the writers in there compares writing novels to carpentry--really funny shit. maybe that's why the comparison is rubbing me the wrong way. anyway.

nabisco otm

hahaha I am not sure what much of that means, but my point was that when a friend begins devoting a good portion of his/her life to something, even something as minor as a hobby, most of us understand the dynamics of how you're still normal friends with them but maybe also get tangentially involved in and supportive of and take an interest in whatever else they're doing, as well, because they're your friend and that's what's going on in their life

like "hell, if this is pretty intuitive with woodworking/long-distance running/whatever, it doesn't have to be that much more complicated with child-rearing"

yeah but for a bunch of complicated reasons friends' child-rearing isn't the kind of thing (in my experience) that the childless seem to take interest in. Big reasons: because they don't want to seem nosy or nitpicky, or because they feel superior to the parents for being childless, or they feel inferior for being childless,...

i just feel like that comparison dismisses a lot on the child rearing side in terms of how much time a baby takes up in your life and how life changing having a baby really is. how many people do you know who have said: "I tell you man, I finished up that cherry oak secretary, took a good look at it, and my life was changed forever."

^^^lolz

otoh it's kinda up to you how much your life changes for having a baby. I get the feeling that lots of people are looking to have their life changed, and babies are a convenient way to do so. I like to think I am the same asshole I was before spawning but lots of others I know are interested in remaking their houses and other such bullshit.

xp Mr. Que: My lathe did the cutest thing yesterday, I've just gotta tell ya.

I get the feeling that lots of people are looking to have their life changed, and babies are a convenient way to do so.

This is totally otm

Mr. Que do you wanna have a baby or a cedar closet?

umm yeah okay Que I don't really dispute that and it's kinda the point I'm making; I feel like you're maybe missing the way the analogy is meant to work and the thrust of the word "hell"

in any case, not particularly important

Euler, I understand with the "nosy" and the impulse to figure new parents are busy and want to leave them alone, but really, if someone I consider a good friend has a kid, I understand that's a very, very major part of what they're doing with their life, and part of their being a friend is to be interested in it, because they're doing it; I don't want to hear about it all day or anything, but if I ask a new parent what's been up with them lately, you gotta figure child stuff is going to be involved, and I don't really find that any more boring than another friend going on about job stuff; it's just what people are doing, you know?

much like my woodworking friend is probably going to tell me shit about woodworking

umm yeah okay Que I don't really dispute that and it's kinda the point I'm making; I feel like you're maybe missing the way the analogy is meant to work and the thrust of the word "hell"

i feel like the analogy isn't a very good one and it's dismissive of the complexities of raising a child, that's all i'm saying, and i will say no more.

cedar cabinets vs. child=cabinets all the way

I mean, you don't want your new-parent friend to see you only as some compartmentalized escape from parenting and home

lol i totally did this for a while

yeah Nabisco I agree; I was trying to understand why childless friends of people with kids would be indifferent, or even actively disinterested, in their friend's child details.

some of my parent bandmates totally do the compartmentalized escape thing, but i don't think it's too unhealthy

xp Euler: Some of it is that people with kids tend to go on about their kids so much, and it's only so interesting to those who don't have them. This isn't too different from Nabisco's example of someone engrossed in a particular hobby. However, in general, the avid hobbyist isn't as enraptured in their hobby than parents are in their kids. It's a closer comparison to someone finding religion or spirituality.

I would like to lighten up this thread by inserting a video of my baby girl dancing
http://www.flickr.com/photos/princessparkle/3428930925/

http://www.flickr.com/photos/princessparkle/3428930925/

well shit that didn't work

"nabisco explains it all"

I would watch & DVR this show.

Next Week on Nabisco Explains it All - How Water Fluoridation Hysteria Shaped the Modern Conservative Movement

there's a lot of people who are clueless about reading other peoples' signs of interest/disinterest, and sometimes those people have babies

it's probably similar to how some people feel about sports, or music, or certain tv shows - you try and try to get your main squeeze, or even a friend, to give a shit about the joy of watching [x], either simply because you're unable to comprehend how anyone would not find [x] fascinating, or two, comprehending that yet feeling that the subject ought to be inherently interesting because you care so dang much about it, and shouldn't people share these kinds of enthusiasms?

to which the answer is, in my experience, if you're talking about baseball, no

Wait till you have two kids, Shakey, THEN talk. :-) I'm serious, having a kid is nooooothing, dead easy, compared to having a second kid. Not only will you have much less sleep also you'll get to toss colds and whatnot around. I breastfed AND ran the shop AND had a baby who did not sleep much the first year. Honestly, now I understand why some of my friends who are TTC (trying to conceive for you non-parents) say they won't be breastfeeding cause they wanna have the husband share the load. Honestly, with Elisabeth there were moments I regretted breastfeeding.(Hey fuck off La Leche League, I work seven days a week and with little to no sleep, I was going ab-so-lu-te-ly kah-razeee.)

Abbott, hon, you KNIT so you SHOULD have babies. ;-)

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3355/3427383736_eed6753693.jpg

For a friend's baby due in June. I'm also trying to make soxors. But I have soxophobia. :-(

Five grand for delivery??? WTF! Here it costs a couple of hundred euros but you get "bonuses' and whatnot which comes to PROFIT. hah. Daycare however is fucking expensive. :-( We'll need to up the amount she goes once my husband finds a job outside the shop. But it'll only be for about a year and a half or so until Elisabeth goes to kindergarden.

But no social life? We quickly made a "working arrangement". I'd go mental if I didn't have a social life. But alas not much going out together unless my parents are around. :-(