TS: Sabrina Carpenter vs. Chappell Roan

because it's been too long since ilm had a dumb-fun taking sides thread.

i'm firmly in sabrina's corner at the moment, even though roan may be more queer-coded.

Sabrina! I don't dislike Chappell, and her songs are probably better for karaoke, but Sabrina does more for me overall.

i dig both but chappell >>>>

Short n Sweet is killer front to back. Worth checking out her earlier ones?

Love'em both.

Carpenter's playful, coquettish, loves performing her puns and one-liners. Roan is closer to the tradition of bizzer singer-songwriter: I can see her becoming a writer-for-hire.

chappell roan because i don't trust them disney kids

Chappel

chappell roan by quite a long way. i don't trust carpenter either, there's something offputting and glib about her stuff but roan is a pop nerd who cares about craft and musicality. one of us! or something

Right now it's Sabrina Carpenter. I do also need to explore other stuff from her too.

Carpenter cares about craft. I admire the concision of her songs and the way she can flit through acoustic and electronic pop.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nQhzhziN1-0

sabrina carpenter is in joni mitchell territory on "coincidence"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbJhdc2zLz0

and on "sharpest tool," the relationship unfolds like a short story, a lot of insight into how silence is relied on by men. this whole section is so elegant, just incredible writing

"We were going right, then you took a left
Left me with a lot of shit to second guess
Guess I'll waste another year on wondering if
If that was casual, then I'm an idiot
I'm looking for an answer in between the lines
Lying to yourself if you think we're fine
You're confused and I'm upset but

We never talk about it"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TuOwCuECUvM

and then "slim pickins" might have my favorite lol lines at the moment

"A boy who's jacked and kind
Can't find his ass to save my life"

...

then the incredible "gay awakening" line at the end of the song:

"It's slim pickins
If I can't have the one I love, I guess it's you that I'll be kissin'
Just to get my fixings
Since the good ones are deceased or taken
I'll just keep on moanin' and bitchin'
Moaning and bitchin'

Since the good ones call their exes wasted
And since the Lord forgot my gay awakenin'
Then I'll just be here in the kitchen servin' up some moanin' and bitchin'"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TmP-d1KQqQo

I like Chappell as a "personality" etc more but Carpenter's music >

i think on songcraft alone, sc has cr beat in my book. but there's something a little too straight about sc for me and i hope cr continues to be very queer while holding on to her magic.

xp what murgatroid said

xxp "Coincidence" is my favorite of her tracks, and the one where it doesn't feel like a bit

roan may be more queer-coded

I mean, she's very much a lesbian? I thought queer-coded meant subtext...

Seems like the Antonoff productions on the Carpenter record are his best-received in years? I haven't seen anyone complaining about his production like usual (I like his production btw).

Ahhhh that explains why all her stuff sounds like that

Like what? One of the things I like most about Short n Sweet is how stylistically diverse it is.

Looks like he only produced 4 of the tracks, but they include most of the ones mentioned above and Please Please Please.

I suspect Amy Allen is the album's secret weapon

john ryan and julian bunetta who did all the non-antonoff production (and the bulk of her previous album) have lowkey been one of the best mainstream pop producer combos since the mid 10s. i think i posted about this in the sabrina thread, but you can trace parts of 'short n sweet' back to work they did helming one direction (and even niall horan solo) albums, several of which are really good

and for the sake of this specific comparison it's worth remembering that all of chappell's music is done in collaboration with dan nigro, so it's not like she presents some diametrically opposed version of mainstream pop in terms of how the music is made. it's more so picking your flavor of mega producer

there's a tastefulness to the production on 'short n sweet' -- nods to FM radio, atlanta bass, boogie, dolly-esque country -- that appeals to me personally, w/ the winning combination being that plus her singular POV as a songwriter and the quality and creativity of the jokes ("this week you're holding space for her tongue in your mouth" c'mon)

i totally get why, in contrast, chappell's smeared maximalist theatrics appeal to people. my gen z friends who love her are also the kinda people who have undying devotion to 'born this way' and 'artpop.' you know what i mean? i appreciate people's appreciation and love some of that stuff myself (and some chappell songs) but that's just not quite my kinda thing

First time I heard Chapell Roan - "Red Wine Supernova" - I thought she was an indie rock person and though I've now listened to her album enough to get how she can be slotted into Pop, and how that's Def the arena she works in, it's still somewhat difficult for me to think of her in that way.

This observation not meant to imply judgements of the quality of the artist or of either genre.

and for the sake of this specific comparison it's worth remembering that all of chappell's music is done in collaboration with dan nigro, so it's not like she presents some diametrically opposed version of mainstream pop in terms of how the music is made. it's more so picking your flavor of mega producer

I know "Espresso" is built from a sample pack. Do Chappell & her producers do that too?

both of these seem to be where I hit a wall in popism - that "H O T T O G O" song is a crime against ears

Do Chappell & her producers do that too?

I would be pleasantly surprised if they didn't use Splice, everyone seems to these days. At least Antonoff is playing the instruments and synths, which is nice (there are some good podcasts where they break down Please Please Please).

been nearly 20 years since tricky stewart & the-dream wrote "umbrella" off a garageband drum loop so i have a hard time getting riled up about the idea of sample packs and stuff like that. in pop, writing a great song makes up for many sins. idk how dan nigro works exactly but if you want more Authenticity in your pop music chappell is prob the safer choice

xp The Song Exploder episode on "Please Please Please" was pretty good. I'm still kind of in awe of how they make that key change in the second verse work.

(I'd have thought imago might be impressed by the fact that the song has 14 unique chords, not even counting 7ths and slash chords).

i have a nagging question about please please please

"i tell them it's just your culture and everyone rolls their eyes"

what culture do we think the ne'er-do-well in the song is from?

these two were such a bright spot last year for me. it helped that i was playing the songs to a full dance floor. it took me a long time to come around to pop so mine is probably a pretty skewed perspective but it feels like they're the best thing to happen to the pop in at least a few years.

what culture do we think the ne'er-do-well in the song is from?

― spoonman (steve aoki remix) (map), Friday, January 31, 2025 5:59 PM (eight minutes ago)

well if you believe that more than just "bed chem" is about barry koeghan that culture would be ireland

the wrong side of the tracks

Barry K. was also in the video for PPP

such an exciting match

Seems like the Antonoff productions on the Carpenter record are his best-received in years?

some of his tracks sound like his work with crj and some sound like his better work with swift. that's just where the whole album sits really

short n sweet > rise and fall of a midwest princess but i vibe way more with roan in general

Chappell all the way

Surprised it is close.