Fugazi: C or D?

(the song, spock, is "margin walker.")

These days the term "emo" is like the Blob/Borg, threatening to absord everything in its path: "I really like emo, you know, like the Beatles and Moby."

No, sir, I don't like it one bit.

I think it's the only genre term I've ever seen change completely over the course of 4-5 years. I suppose that can be blamed, in part, on the people making it -- the term started with just-post-hardcore bands like Cap'N Jazz and would up stuck on bashy- poppy-punk bands like the Promise Ring (members of Cap'N Jazz). Regardless, any term variously applied to refer to Mineral, Karate, and the Get-Up Kids is beginning to lack meaning.

But so the question now is: with the Cap'N Jazz guys reforming as the Owls, will "emo" go back to being what it was, leaving the Get-Up Kids as just "crap?" Or will the Owls play funk, leading us to start referring to Parliament as "emo?"

Emo: supposed to have started with Rites of Spring is my understanding, who led to Fugazi. Now the term is meaningless, for reasons laid out expertly by Nitsuh.

North of America: not emo at all. Math rock, pure math rock.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guvwUUCvsKs&feature=share

^^Not showing up for me. What is it?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=guvwUUCvsKs

I love how Albini said for years that Fugazi was one of the few bands he respected so much he'd record them for free. And then he recorded them and they didn't use it.

Hmm. I can sorta see why they scrapped this, but I say that as someone very, very familiar with IOTKT as it was released

But none of these versions are better than the album versions

(see also: First Demo. How many times have you listened to that one since you bought it?)

Ian Mackaye of Fugazi/Minor Threat/ Dischord Records at the #JuggaloMarch pic.twitter.com/acrebJ4zCd

— #retiredpunk (@NickKarpPhotos) September 17, 2017

http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_500/MI0002/018/MI0002018821.jpg

Saw that! Watched Brendan Canty playing drums with Lizzi from GangGang Dance & guitarist Dana Vorhees at the Hirshhorn Museum Yoko Ono tribute. Canty & Joe Lally will be backing Daniel Johnston on his upcoming DC gig.

Koolest Wizards jumbotron screengrab of all time? pic.twitter.com/XV6Xt4R8D1

— Chris _ _ Richards (@Chris__Richards) November 10, 2017

Also, had no idea Lally and Canty were in a new band together.

(With Anthony Pirog)

& Rites of Spring really surprised me

Welp, that rules.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C0nFZe_e-qc

new canty/lally/pirog track

Another track here https://themessthetics.bandcamp.com/track/serpent-tongue

Messthetics album release is March 23. Brendan Canty is also gonna be busy touring with MC5 50th anniversary group with Wayne Kramer and others

End hits fucking rules

^otm

all fugazi albums rule

Steady Diet of Nothing doesn't imo but that's about it

No, that one rules, too. A lot.

Steady Diet a lot better than End Hits - the former a much better showcase for the rhythm section, which is the band's strongest point.

(what I mean is the instrumental-side of Fugazi is better in the context of short, tightly wound interplay where the bass/drums are at the forefront - 'jammy' Fugazi isn't the best Fugazi IMO)

i'd call red medicine jammy, end hits i guess is playing-wise but towards much more frictive ends? anyway that era is my favorite of theirs, i think the rhythm section gets plenty of shine and the compositions especially on end hits hit a great balance of punch and spaciousness (both of which iirc steady diet lacks a bit i comparison to their other records variously, though it still rules)

the argument hits that balance the most smoothly and so might be their best (it's a good record to end on as it ties together strands of their previous modes to creates its own). i listen to it less though bc i love their jammy mode

There is a case to be made that The Argument=Red Medicine/End Hits. End Hits is the one I listen to the least, for no good reason.

In On The Kill Taker is the band's most aggro album. "Facet Squared" - an awesome rush, but why even bother with lyrics? Blaaaargh!

...and their best, IMO. Probably their loudest album but also more dynamically nuanced than the earlier stuff. Plus "Sweet and Low" (an example of why I'm iffy about the longer, later material - they perfected the "this is a Fugazi instrumental" here)

"Facet Squared" - an awesome rush, but why even bother with lyrics? Blaaaargh!

ah but Facet Squared includes one of my absolute favourite Ian lines - "We draw lines and we stand behind them / That's why flags are such ugly things"

I love the lyrics to Facet Squared. 'Cool's eternal but it's always dated' has the ring of a stolen revealed truth.

Yeah, but did you catch any of those lyrics without a lyrics sheet?

Steady Diet is the one that most consistently slays from beginning to end imo. Maybe others have higher highs but it's still my favorite to play in the car.

xp "Irony is the refuge of the educated" was a line ahead of its time imo

That and "I hate the sound of guitars" are the fugazi lyrics I think about most

Messthetics LP is awesome, gotta check out more music by this Anthony Pirog guy

Good podcast interview w/Ian about some of the music that mattered to him: http://wypr.org/post/essential-tremors-ian-mackaye

Fugazi rules. my first album of theirs was "Red Medicine" and i was shocked it was only $10. soon enough picked up "Repeater" and listened to those two a lot in my first year of college. kept up with them off an on and always enjoyed their stuff. i remember really liking the "Instrument" movie, which was the last thing i heard of them.

i got to see them play a show in early 2000s. it was of course a great show, and they stopped it midway through to throw out somebody in the audience who was being unduly aggressive. as a small person who always had to be cautious around mosh pits at shows, seeing this in action was very much appreciated!

No one wants to discuss this Mesthetics record, huh? Quit living in the past!

Mostly kidding here. But this record is great and should be getting more attention.

Fuck it, I'm starting a thread

There is no way Geffen thought they would lose money on SY

Venue owners are very famous for their charity and support of acts who they don't make money off of

Instead of "prestige booking" another phrase that would more aptly describe this exchange is "sour grapes"

lol yes

pretty sure the Roseland makes more money on alcohol sales than tickets tbh

Prolly more pop sales in there too if it's Fugazi, unless they're so straight edge that they don't consume caffeine lol

I have a friend who’s able to live a higher standard of life than I can and he’s a teacher making less than 40k a year…because his parents are fucking loaded and live in a multimillion dollar house, so he’s always got that to fall back on (he bought a house during the pandemic, travels the world on breaks from school, etc — all ostensibly on a teacher’s salary). If I recall Ian Mackaye’s parents were pretty well off as well…so yeah, of course you can charge $5 at the door when having a survivable income isn’t your main concern in life.

Growing up in Richmond Tim Barry was always around and (I personally believe) has an admirable way of living — doubt he grew up loaded but the guy lives dirt fucking cheap in all aspects of his life so again, could see how money at the door isn’t a concern for him.

But I could see how it would be for most bands.

I’m just talking out of my ass of course.

I heard the Fugazi guys live without heat, that's gotta be a pretty big budget savings

I believe it's common knowledge by now that Goldenvoice took a loss every time they booked Fugazi at the Hollywood Palladium for $5 or $7 ticket price. You'd have to ask Paul Tolette (or somebody else who would know) what the specific motivation was, but I would imagine it was a punk point of pride — it wasn't that much of a loss — it made them look like good guys and appealing to other artists they were looking to book — and so on. 'Prestige booking' is the right term. 'Loss leader' is another one, haha.

That's very interesting. Though in that case it sounds like the promoter (which itself came from the hardcore punk world) was eating the cost, not the venue.

Right, but... I mean, I'm not sure it'd be logistically possible for a rock band to rent the Palladium for a concert, without using a promoter. The headaches would be immense if not prohibitive for the two parties—I think! I'd assume there was a promoter for Roseland Fugazi shows too, but what do I know.

Goldenvoice in LA started as a smaller scale punk show promoter, so it was a matter of pride for them to continue doing Fugazi gigs.

Fugazi only played the Roseland Ballroom in NYC twice ever, 2 nights in a row in 1993. Not sure re whether the place lost money, but it booked lots of big name bands around that time (possibly for prestige purposes)

https://dischord.com/fugazi_live_series/new-york-city-ny-usa-92493

If I recall Ian Mackaye’s parents were pretty well off as well…so yeah, of course you can charge $5 at the door when having a survivable income isn’t your main concern in life

His Dad was an editor at the Washington Post, not sure what Mom did, and Ian is one of 5 siblings. By the time of Fugazi, Ian was still living in a rented house in Arlington where he and Jeff Nelson ran Dischord records that was started circa 1979/1980 based on funds they earned from Teen Idles gigs, and sustained subsequently from money from Minor Threat and others on the label.

Most Fugazi gigs in DC were benefit ones at non-profit halls or free ones

https://medium.com/seventhirty-dc/at-action-reaction-action-fugazis-sprawling-legacy-visualized-for-a-new-generation-49b032e03453
https://medium.com/seventhirty-dc/at-action-reaction-action-fugazis-sprawling-legacy-visualized-for-a-new-generation-49b032e03453

Right, but... I mean, I'm not sure it'd be logistically possible for a rock band to rent the Palladium for a concert, without using a promoter. The headaches would be immense if not prohibitive for the two parties—I think! I'd assume there was a promoter for Roseland Fugazi shows too, but what do I know.

― jaywbabcock, Friday, July 12, 2024 3:21 PM (twenty-seven minutes ago) bookmarkflaglink

I don't know either. My confusion is about Brannon saying that "the Roseland absolutely lost money that night" and asking "Is it ethical to just name an arbitrary price . . . and let the venue eat it?" If the venue is getting paid just fine, and a promoter from the punk/alt-rock world is the one losing money, that's much easier to understand. (Though I still wouldn't have guessed.)

I imagine the Roseland booked in-house. But again, what do I know about NY. I know something about L.A./S. CA for a certain period.

The other thing about Fugazi doing $5 shows as they got bigger and bigger... the barrier to entry was so low you got yahoos just there to be disruptive/violent, whatever. If they got kicked out of the venue by security, so what, they were only out $5, right? I saw Fugazi at least 5 times... and I don't think I ever saw a memorable, moving, amazing performance, due to the constant policing from stage by Ian...which was (arguably) due to the too-low ticket price.

You’re getting the three arguably biggest bands in hardcore at that time

Delusional

Buddyhead News should return to roast this entire interview

If they got kicked out of the venue by security, so what, they were only out $5, right?

Didn't they also make a point of giving people their $5 back if they got tossed? I feel like I heard something about that. (I never saw Fugazi live.)

did not see them in their earliest days, but i did see them at least half a dozen times from 1993 on, and I don't think I ever saw a memorable, moving, amazing performance, due to the constant policing from stage by Ian was not at all my experience

The policing was part of the experience iirc

I had a fucking blast every time I saw Fugazi they were the hammer of the gods, and we were definitely not being straight edge, I don't remember that much lecturing I feel like that's overrated

One of a short list of bands I wish I’d seen.

LOL election campaigns do not last 21 weeks in the UK!

did not see them in their earliest days, but i did see them at least half a dozen times from 1993 on, and _I don't think I ever saw a memorable, moving, amazing performance, due to the constant policing from stage by Ian_ was not at all my experience

a sobering insight into the workings of the zing app

(i wish i'd seen fugazi yes)

the one time i saw fugazi was the fort reno show that turned out to be their last dc show ever. cool memory but i wish i had savored it and tried to remember it more or get closer to the stage or something.

i work with video crews around dc a lot and what time i got into a prolonged conversation with a couple guys who were very convinced fugazi will reunite someday. i was like guys, no, trust me. the leonsis stunt didn't work and nothing else will, just go see the evens/coriky/the messthetics if you're still dying to see those guys play together.

Fugazi were a massively important band to me and what seemed to be my entire cohort at the time, they were basically a group of people we considered saints, but... What can I say, I saw them in L.A., which iirc from one of various conversations through the years with Ian, was always/often a challenging place for them to be at their best. I've never gone back to listen to recordings of the shows, but my memory is that there were often insanely potent passages/sequences that just got...deflated...or couldn't be sustained. 's all.

a sobering insight into the workings of the zing app

fwiw they were incredible the three times I saw them in the 90's, I can see how the bigger cities might be different.

The other thing about Fugazi doing $5 shows as they got bigger and bigger... the barrier to entry was so low you got yahoos just there to be disruptive/violent, whatever. If they got kicked out of the venue by security, so what, they were only out $5, right? I saw Fugazi at least 5 times... and I don't think I ever saw a memorable, moving, amazing performance, due to the constant policing from stage by Ian...which was (arguably) due to the too-low ticket price.

― jaywbabcock, Friday, 12 July 2024 21:06 (yesterday) link

The low barrier to entrance was def a contributing factor to the meathead factor which at shows in the early 90s just post Nirvana was insane and I def saw shows that Ian stopped in order to protect audience members that could interrupt the the flow of the show and let the energy out of the room.

Once in Chicago in a huge theater dude jumped on stage like seconds into "Birthday Pony" and Ian completely stopped the show and said they weren't going to play the song now cuz of this asshole and it felt like he was going a little too far, honestly for a moment I thought maybe the whole band was going to leave the stage.

Thankfully I never saw a gig with more than one or two of these sorts of incidents and I can def see how having to stop the gig every other song or whatever would totally kill the vibe.

I saw them for the first time at a tiny place in Vermont and it was a day or two after the Rodney King video had come out and the Gulf War had started (or was about to). That was life-changing. I saw them a little later in Detroit (the day after the first Lolapalooza had come through) and the skinhead faction had come in, and it was a bit scary and pretty violent (Nation of Ulysses opened though, which was great).

That's an interesting idea that the $5 ticket encouraged the bullshit. But they would not have been Fugazi if they charged as much as the other bands. And part of what is so great about them is how they were always working out the contradictions of their situation (like eventually having women come on stage to sing "Suggestion").

Man I could use an ice cream right now though.

Not saying it encourage it, but there were def people who were at shows, esp in the early 90s, becuz it was only 5 bucks and didn't have any vested interest in the music or thought it was going to be a Minor Threat show or just wanted to "stir shit up"

https://cinemadfilm.com/project/we-are-fugazi/

Cinemad Film is now booking the We Are Fugazi film worldwide. You can contact them if you want a theatre or space near you to book it. A few upcoming screenings listed there

It just screened in London earlier tonight

The one time I saw Fugazi was in the summer of 1991, height of craziness, in a huge venue in West Vancouver with like 6-7 other bands. Ian stopped the show over & over becuz dudes would not stop stage diving. It was a wreck. There were definitely moments of transportation, but my overwhelming memory of the gig remains of this stern, hectoring man, hollering at people in the crowd to stop doing various things. I think at one point he said something like “Did you think you were here to see Minor Threat?”

Looks like that show was recorded if you wanna go down memory lane

https://dischord.com/fugazi_live_series/vancouver-bc-canada-81991

This thread finally got me off my ass to dl the Live Series recordings of the two shows I attended

I remember 1993 being a bit grim and stolid and 1996 being funky and fun - listening to the 1996 recording first and it is great!

the best goddamn live band I ever saw

otm

Looks like that show was recorded if you wanna go down memory lane

https://dischord.com/fugazi_live_series/vancouver-bc-canada-81991🕸

the best goddamn live band I ever saw

otm

Also cuz of this thread I finally dl'd my first Fugazi show, May 23 1993, first of three nights in a row at First Ave (pretty certain I went to all three), during which they played nearly their entire catalog to that point

https://dischord.com/fugazi_live_series/minneapolis-mn-usa-52393

It sounds great, and I remember it all like yesterday, the "Great Cop" intro sent chills down my spine just like it did 31 yrs ago. I missed them by about a week in 1991 when a tape with the eps, Repeater & Steady Diet was pressed into my hand at an end of summer party and I was told to make myself familiar with the music, so by the time they finally came back 18 months (a fucking lifetime) later I was a rabid fanatic

There are little dubby touches to the live sound here & there (echo on Ian's vocal in "Repeater" for inst) that blew my mind at the time

Man, this doc still hasn't come to Chicago has it?

Doesn't look like it. I will again ask one of the producers of the film who I know. He had told me that Cinemad film distributor who I mentioned earlier, was going to send emails out in January to a bunch of arthouse theatres

Tell him to hit up the Globe and the Plaza in Calgary, AB, as well as the Calgary Underground Film Festival!

I’d love to see this.

Ray, you didn't see it at the run at the AFI Silver in Md., near DC? That's where I saw it. It's a great doc.

Bring that shit to the Music Box! Or some other theater in the Chicago/Milwaukee megalopolis plz!

The guy handling it says : cool, who from chicago? i'm getting a few people who don't run theaters who want to rent a screen to show it, it's just too complicated and they will lose money so i ask them to get the theater booker to hit me up.

Cinemad contact email to send them theatre contact info is

Filmplante at gmail dot com

https://cinemadfilm.com/project/we-are-fugazi

There’s also a contact form email on the link

https://cinemadfilm.com/contact/