Taking Sides: Peter Green vs Eric Clapton

I'm gonna put on Then Play On right now; I've gotta hear "Showbiz Blues". So sad that we never got a proper follow-up to one of the greatest records.

I haven't really ever heard much of Peter Green, but he certainly wins by default.

And I do like Cream. Disraeli Gears especially.

Of course, this only goes for recording/playing, and not so much for songwriting...

Green's The End of the Game LP is better than Layla.

Five Live Yardbirds is great. "Smokestack Lightning" on there rips shit up. I really want to hear the new live thing that was recently unearthed.

'I Shot the Sherriff,' every solo he's taken on tribute TV specials: Hyper-dud.

peter fuckin green, yo

I recall reading an interview with Les Paul many years back wherein he mentioned that Green was the guitarist who'd gotten closest to the tone that Paul had envisioned when he devised the electric guitar.

57/7th: while the solo on "White Room" is a nice one, have you noticed that it's looped and reoccurs in identical form on the second go-round? And do you take the N/R/W subway line?

So obviously Peter Green takes this one.

Btw, as much as I do like Clapton, let's not forget that it was Duane Allman that played much of the slide solo in Layla that many people give Eric credit for.

Having said that, I must also comment on some people's hatred of Eric Clapton because he's too over-rated... That's not his fault, and correct me if I'm wrong, but when he broke up Cream and formed Derek & the Dominoes he was doing his best to get away from his preceived guitar-god status. He may not have been all that successful at that goal, but you have to give him credit for trying to reinvent without his name in neon lights. Isn't disliking a musician because other people have caused them to be over-rated akin to disliking a great song only because it was overplayed on the radio or on TV?

-- Broheems (electrifyingmoj...) (webmail), April 23rd, 2004. (diamond)

Maybe Green was a more original player than Clapton was if you compare their stints in the Bluesbreakers? But if you compare Cream-era Clapton to early F.M.-era Green, I don't know if that statement is true.

And the BBC version of "Rattlesnake Shake", "Oh Well", and the single version of "Green Manalishi" both have this angular and totally raw kind of atonal guitar feedback that totally looked fowward to the more mechanical sound that 70s heavy metal and hard rock (Judas Priest, Aerosmith, etc.) would develop further. I also think Green's playing on these songs somehwhat Rocket from the Tombs. And can anybody tell me if Mac's mixture of blistering hard rock and hyper-nostalgic oldies was an influence on the Flamin' Groovies similar mixture?

For me, I wouldn't compare Green and Clapton as just guitar players but as total artists and Green's music seems to possess more soul searching depth than Clapton's. I don't think Clapton ever opened his heart and translated it into music the way Green did on "Man of the World" and his solo LP The End of the Game, which, for me, is one of the great "out there" free blues psych jazz records (and I don't think Clapton was ever that daring).

I do think Cream produced a core of influential work, but none of it, to these ears, sounds as fresh as Green's.

Incidentally, I have to agree with what you've said. Although I do like Clapton, I've never been of the opinion that he played with any soul. I've used this example before, but just look at the difference in playing style between Robbie Robertson and Eric Clapton in "Further On Up The Road" during The Last Waltz... Clapton is all fingers; very articulate, but little soul. On the other hand, Robbie looked like he his guitar was trying to escape his grasp, and he was using his whole body to try to keep it in control.

And wow! It's rare to see so many people not only on this board, but in a single thread, that aren't part of the Clapton Sucks gang. Very nice to see.

I know I keep reiterating this point, but I have absolutely no problem with someone who claims that they don't like him, but I definitely disagree with anyone who simply says that he sucks.

I'm not one to state my opinion as fact, but i think I'm on pretty safe ground when I state: Eric Clapton is, at the very least, a very talented guitar player. And so far I'm willing to bet that the last three posters (not including me of course) would agree with that statement. How refreshing!

Clapton's lead playing was almost ALWAYS calculated, precise, and composed, leaving very little room for true heart and soul. Clapton had hellacious tone, which some may mistake for the aforementioned heart and soul, but I beg to differ.

Green had that quality that was best summarized by BB King, a quote to the effect that Peter Green is "the only guitar player who makes the hair stand up on the back of my neck". High praise, indeed.

Green is definitely one of my favorite lead guitarists of all time, mostly because he always has that indefinable "soul", that emotive quality in his phrasing.

I submit evidence number one, "Love That Burns" off of the Mr. Wonderful LP. If those guitar solos and phrases between vocal lines don't give you the shivers and make you want to drown in sorrow, then you don't have a heart.

Clapton achieved forms of exuberance in his lead playing, namely "Badge" and "Crossroads" but he rarely tapped into the stuff Green so easily tapped into. OK, I'll give Clapton points for "While My Guitar Gently Weeps", however, there is some distinct over-emoting going on here. The vibrato is a little too much, and there's a maudlin quality, one Green would never resort to get his point across.

Anyhow, pretty clear where I stand. I'm gonna go blast "Lazy Poker Blues" now to remind me further of how overrated Clapton is.

That would definitely be vice versa, if anything. One Rocket from the Tombs song was a fairly direct rip of an early Humble Pie thing, so they easily could have listened to Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac.

And can anybody tell me if Mac's mixture of blistering hard rock and hyper-nostalgic oldies was an influence on the Flamin' Groovies similar mixture?

I doubt it. Flamin' Groovies weren't blistering hard rock for very long, particularly after Roy Loney left. The live stuff included on the Teenage Head reissue is a heavy-sounding garage band using Marshalls.

Peter Green's Fleetwood Mac -- well, their live stuff falls into two or three categories. First, Jeremy Spencer's burlesque and Elvis shtick ("lick, lick, lick-on-my-dick" -- condoms hung on mike stands and tuning keys), emergent twin guitar hard rock (Green and Kirwan) and really long jams (check Boston Tea Party).

Only the Jeremy Spencer-stuff gets close to Flamin' Groovies and the intersection is hiccuping rockabilly (which Roy Loney was doing), not hard rock.

Robbie Robertson can indeed set the world on fire, but he's such a loathsome cunt, that it's difficult to give him any credit whatsoever.

He is such a fuckin' asswipe.

Composed? Don't know how often his solos were composed (at least w/ his late '60s stuff).

Clapton is dog.

Clapton's vaunted tone skillz are a mystery: do some heroin, crank your stack and play Buddy Guy on a Strat a bit quickly with too much attention to phrasing and whopteedoo--there you are.

Ergo v2 comms

Speak to me MAn of the World ........ wow. Gary Moore is Erics equal

But it has to be Green. There is a whole other kind of depth there. I love his playing on "The Biggest Thing Since Colossus", and those responsible for the non-appearance of a proper re-release of "Then Play On" should be drawn and quartered ...

Has anyone mentioned Mike Bloomfield? An outstanding player, too.

I've already stated that while I like both Clapton and Green, I probably prefer Green. Having said that, and nothing more to do with Green, the guy who I buy my guitars from was a studio and session man back in the 70s, and at one point played with Three Dog Night. I asked him what he thought of all the negativity about Eric Clapton. He told me how he was witness to a special live show for musicians, roadies, etc after a concert including B.B. King, Stevie Ray Vaughan, Jeff Beck and Eric Clapton.

While he enjoyed what he called the limited skills of B.B. and SRV (whom he said he loved initially, but got bored with quickly), he felt that Jeff Beck was definitely the least talented of the group, and that Clapton was able to play his own stuff and the styles of the other 3 at least as well, and in his opinion, better than they could.

Now that doesn't make his word gospel, but this guy is an extremely talented lead guitar player, and I give a lot of weight to his opinion on this matter.

peter green

yup

I feel like going for Clapton because, in spite of being a blues purish to begin with, he has later proved he can master a number of genres.

And, I mean, in spite of making mainly boring MOR rock the past 25-30 years.

The only genre EC has mastered IS MOR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hL87WE81Z1w

just picked up the vinyl reissue of Green-era Mac live in Boston in 1970. unbelievable. i have never been a fan of british blooze-rock, but this is something else altogether. "Then Play On" has been on permanant rotation ever since i first heard it a few years ago. True blues, with deep emotion. Strangely enough, it reminds me at times of Jeff Buckley (who I strongly dislike), but if Jeff Buckley wasn't such a pussy.

Peter Green's In the Skies is getting a remaster by the reactivated boutique label Iconoclassics. (They've also opened up a Discogs account for direct sales: https://www.discogs.com/seller/IconoclassicRecords/profile )

Per their website, they're even including the rare “Apostle” b/w “Tribal Dance” single that preceded the LP release.

https://iconoclassicrecords.com/album/in-the-skies/

That’s great, I just discovered that album last week! I did recognize “tribal dance” from an old Daniele Baldelli mix

I just realized this also mirrors 461 Ocean Boulevard in that it's a comeback after personal struggles, with a more "mellow" and quieter approach. Like 461 it also utilizes a second guitarist, though in Green's case, I think Snowy's given the lead solo on just two cuts whereas George Terry did even more heavy lifting for Clapton. They're both fine albums, but I think Green's is ultimately the better one, and it isn't marred by dubious appropriation (i.e. "I Shot the Sheriff").

Listening to the early Peter Green Fleetwood Mac records, they do have to be the best stoned out of their goard slow blues band. So many of those tunes sound like yer floatin’.

Peter Green's first album is a nice extension of that. (Just came back into print thanks to Iconoclassic Records.)

Sorry, actually second album: In the Skies

Recently I schooled some young’uns by pointing out the “Black Magic Woman” was a Fleetwood Mac tune.

Hmm, hadn’t known about this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=asZ5ouj_44k

Nor this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRu7Pt42x6Y