TS: In the Court of the Crimson King, In the Wake of Poseidon, Lizard or Islands

Poseidon is too much of a shameless clone for me to get past (I think the material is generally weaker, too, though "Cat Food" is pretty cool). I appreciate Islands a lot more now than when I first heard it as a teenager, but again, rarely play it. It's very dry and Sinfield's lyrics..yeesh.

That being said, the only "Crimson" disc worth listening to in this day and age is "The First Day".

I never truly understood the heavy-handed hate of this album (then again, I wasn't around firsthand to experience it either), because I find it an interesting take on medieval music.

I'm not really great at expressing WHY I like something so much, which is why my time as an album reviewer met with very little reviews, but I liked the more experimental Crimson than the straightforward Crimson King (which is still a terrific record, with perhaps their best 70's vocalist Greg Lake, but it's not my favorite).

I find "Cirkus" to be one of their finest songs ever, with that triplet acoustic guitar riff being one of the neatest passages on that album and maybe their career.

"Happy Family" is kind of goofy, but I like it for that reason, and I really like the odd riff that starts the song and precedes each verse.

Even though Haskell was by no means a good singer, the ballad that precedes the 20 minute Lizard is a good "setup" I think.

And I think the 20 minute Lizard is phenomenal, and despite it being done due to Haskell packing up and leaving, I think the contrast between Jon anderson and Haskell's vocals on that track work wonderfully. I love the sheer dynamics the song goes through.

Islands I like marginally but it's not one of my favorites. I should mention my favorite KC studio album is Lark's Tongues in Aspic.

Wake is boring except for Cat Food and I'm constantly amazed at how bad Lizard is when I listen to it now.

The later KC albums w/Bruford/Wetton are listenable; some of the instrumental sections of "Starless." "Red" remains, in my opinion, the only worthwhile KC album. Never cared for the later stuff w/Belew. Fripp's guitar work is nice in the context of Eno or someone like that, but King Crimson is to my ears prog wankery at its most misguided.

I think the only outright awful lyric on Islands is "The Letter" or whatever that one's called, w/ the bunk about the "poisoned quill" and so forth. But I always thought the title track, with the string bass and flugelhorn outro were was pretty gorgeous.

As for Crimson King's material vs. that of Poseidon's, I'll agree that "Cat Food" is a standout. I'd also say that the latter's title track is better than "Epitaph".

Any KC/Fripp related thread, I just knew that bahtology would not fail to mention this disc.

Forgot about "Cadence and Cascade" on Poseidon. I love that song.

Lovebug, I think art-rock and prog are the same thing. I mean, who's art rock that's not prog?

don't be frustrated, rejoice! I just happened to be listening to Exposure the exact moment I checked ILM last night, but I enjoyed your initial post very much, and the first four records do form a specific period.

Heh, sorry, it's in my nature to push towards Red and Discipline just because, but I guess of the first four I'd probably take Islands despite the embarassing awfulness of the lyrics to "Ladies of the Road". Not that "Cat Food" was any better. (Weakness of Crimso lyrics non-shocka, even on Discipline really.)

Here's the thing:

Side A of Crimson King == Size A of Wake of Poseidon

The winner here is clearly Crimson King, but Poseidon has a more interesting B side, regardless of the fact that it's a shameless Holst rip-off, and even though The Court of the Crimson King is a beautiful track.

Lizard is weird aimless psychedelia with daft lyrics, and Islands is the sound of a formation running out of steam.

Therefore Poseidon gets my vote, because while Crimson King arguably has better individual numbers, the Moonchild jam is pointless and requires skippage.

And is there something wrong with thinking that the lyrics to "Ladies of the Road" aren't terrible? I mean, the song's a joke...

i've almost never understood all the hype over their first album though -- however a recent re-issue with clippings from back then including of all people Pete Townshend hailing it as "art", "taking music in some new direction" etc.. reading that i finally understood the sort of "art" perspective it's defenders were coming from. It was Townshend being even more pretentious outside of his "art who ?" role.
OK 21CSM reminds me of the harsh angular rock of later albums like Red and Exposure, but then the lyrics are hardly "2000, man", just bad sci-fi, and i have to agree with Joe with regard to the rest:
Really the only track I'll still play from that one, though, is "21st Century Schizoid Man"; the others I've pretty much retired, they're either repetitive or a bit too mellow to play routinely.

i like the mellotron and dynamics of side 2 of Wake of Poseidon, the triptych thing -- an impressive audio demonstration and in particular the overlapping cacophonies, fake scratches and esp. the dynamics, yes -- but what's better still about that track is the absence of vocals.

i remember liking some of Islands too, but the vocals are now beyond silly whimsical subjects, they're plain ugly, but it has a big long instrumental side i like, yes

but i'd listen to any of these records aprox once every 3 years
(cf: Exposure, which i love most of and listen to often (except for that horrible gabriel composition) -- Exposure sounds like Fripp trying to be like Eno and make solo records like his, and pretty much pulling it off (except for that horrible gabriel composition)).

Ah yes, the lineup of Gunn, Sylvian, Fripp and Marotta. It is Crimsonesque at times, isn't it? But probably not prog enough for the eggheads. Much too much groove. The lyrics that Sylvian penned made actual sense, therefore excluding them from qualifying as prog. The First Day has actual songs on it, not mathematical exercises. This fact alone also excludes the disc from qualifying as prog.

"i've almost never understood all the hype over their first album"

King Crimson's big public debut was opening for the Stones at Hyde Park for their first show after Brian Jones died. KC went over well and the band did have a different sound than most bands of the time. Probably every magazine/paper that covered pop music probably wrote an article or blurb about that gig. It was bit like Santana at Woodstock or Hendrix at Monterrey, they got a big lift from that show. Not many bands/artists get such a gig.

I haven't heard anything by KC between the first album and the Wetton/Bruford group. I'd eventually like to check them out.

We need official bootlegs of the original live gigs. Playing live, after building up the loop, he'd punch out and spin solos over the top ala No Pussyfooting. Both God Save The Queen and Let The Power Fall only document the decay loops, and don't contain the solos. I wish I had more of these bootlegs myself, would love to hear anyone pick out favorite dates.

i wonder if fripp wpuld wish to include those essays about commercialism and 3 year plans that came with those "frippertronics" albums, if they were to be re-issued.

incidentally, if you like "no pussyfooting" type stuff, you might like jim o'rourke's "i'm happy and i'm singing and 1,2,3,4"
(which doesn't expoit the never-ending decaying thing in the same way, being a computer composition, but which is long-ish and does have points of similarity like the decaying/ resonating warn electronic tones)

title track of In The Wake Of Poseidon is a very pretty mellotron piece with amazing drumming by Michael Giles. and Cat Food is a great single. I don't find Grge Lake's voice as irritating in the Crimson context, can't really stand it outside.

i still stand by Islands as being pretty good. boz gets slammed for his lyrical delivery but I don't know why, he sounds exactly like every other pre-wetton vocalist to me

also, lizard is still not that good, but I appreciate it more now than i did three years ago.

I used to love Lizard but it just gives me the shits now. Poseidon is always great and Islands improves with each listen.

That whacking great Moonchild mess prevents Court being a consistent work.

I still see "Lizard" as their second best, the weirder and more experimental they got, the less I like them.

This thread made me pull out "Lizard" after a few years, and by golly, it's a pretty kickass little album, definitely unique in the KC oeuvre . "Cirkus" has the most evil mellotron of all KC songs, as well as what's probably the most badass acoustic guitar performance of Fripp's recorded career. "Indoor Games" is funky and has that awesome guitar/sax/synth interplay toward the end. "Happy Family" just sounds mean. "Lady of the Dancing Water" is a boring pile of shit, but at least it's short. And the title track fuckin' rules because

1. Jon Anderson on a KC song... wtf? And awesome.
2. That "Bolero" thing is groovy.
3. Fripp's soloing toward the end has that kind of laser beam sound that he'd shortly become famous for, and as far as I can tell it's the first time he played that way on an album.

That being said, I think "Poseidon" is the best, "In the Court" is interesting but overrated, and "Islands" is pretty much poo, other than "Sailor's Tale," "Ladies of the Road," and that pretty string quartet business.

True story: I just did some studio work on the new Minus 5 album, and I was instructed by Scott McCaughey to "play some 'In The Wake Of Poseidon' shit on the mellotron." Made my fuckin' year.

Damn, I used to love all of these as a teen (Lizard being a favourite) but haven't had the urge to pull 'em out for a long time now. Mostly, nowadays, I just like individual songs, or individual parts of songs: "Schizoid Man" naturally, the whimsical Cecil Taylorisms of "Cat Food", the multilayered noise (complete w/"Court of the Crimson King" sample) of "Garden of Wurm", and Robert Fripp's eternal sustain. Also notable: "Happy Family"'s wacky VCS3-treated vocals - Enosification two years before Roxy Music's debut. And the fact that the 3rd and 4th LPs sounded NOTHING like the previous two after "Poseidon" virtually carbon-copied the debut.

And what any of this shit had to do with Captain Beefheart is a complete mystery.

http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/9992/quz95c67a8wlv1ff4up1rsgls3.jpg

Listening to "Moonchild" this morning, blimey it sounds like Noel Gallagher!

http://psychic-vr-lab.com/deepdream/pics/252913.html

haha, this feature on In the Court on Jesse Thorn's podcast is reminding me that prog is the silliest shit ever.

This is great I think, and not the release take but not 100% sure: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssUWSiMlFBU

its very similar to the take they used but I did notice some inflections that weren't there on the studio recording. maybe they used parts of it? either way wow what a voice he had

Sounds to me like it would have been a take shortly before the final one, where he was putting things earlier in the song that he saved for later for dramatic/dynamic purposes when he did it again.

Live versions from those days all sound pretty similar to the version on the album, so I assume he just converged on the interpretation he liked and stuck with it. In a later solo version it sounds like he lowered that key and doesn’t hold some of the notes as long but still didn’t change it too much otherwise

That = the