Taking Sides: Frank Zappa vs. Prince

Truly, the only historic things Frank ever did were produce "Trout Mask Replica" and testify before the U.S. Congress. Not a stellar track record there.

-J

Prince = Carmen Electra.

Advantage: Prince...

And just what is wrong with Ween? You do know that they worship Prince as much (if not more) than Zappa, yes?

The "Varese v. Parliament" comparison upthread is interesting -- though Mr. Clinton was very much influenced by Mr. Zappa, ergo influenced by Varese at least vicariously. (Here's an interesting idea, dave q. -- how much influence did Varese have on contemporary African-American music?)

both are sui generis, inimitable, studio boffins that could also tear it up live (take that Messrs. Wilson, Lennon/McCartney, and Shields!) matter of fact, both Zappa and Prince point up the conceits of the aforementioned that their music was studio-bound and couldn't be played by live musicians (though you'd have to get some insanely talented musicians to do it right live -- witness FZ's "Greatest Band You've Never Heard In Your Life" and Prince's NPG -- as well as willing to subsume their own musical egos to [conversely, some might say, be brainwashed by!] the maestro writing their paychecks [something tells me that George Harrison, Mike Love, and Belinda Butcher weren't quite as, um, "pliable" as Steve Vai, Ike Willis, or Sheila E.). Both started with more conventional (for them) bands -- the Mothers and the Revolution -- that some of their respective fans over-fetishize, and as great as both bands were both Zappa and Prince really did outgrow them. anyway, the prodigious chops needed to play their music, or to properly integrate their music into one's own musical output, probably diminishes influence either has on current or future musicians (Ween and Primus notwithstanding).

re the porno lyrics -- FZ arguably did those as much for laughs (and laughs = money, latter needed to finance less commercially-viable music) as for "commentary," plus they gave him opportunities to work with genuine showmen like Flo and Eddie (both of whom, BTW, ad-libbed a lot of their smuttier lyrics) and Ike Willis (it's a rare singer who could sing songs about schtupping robots). Prince prob. did the dirty songs for $$$$$ (at least early on), but there's a religious element even to the sexual songs in Prince that is (obviously) lacking in Zappa (i.e, Prince could never do "Jesus Thinks You're a Jerk," but FZ could never do "Nothing Compares 2 U").

both had run-ins with major record labels -- the "Artist Formerly Known As" flap v. the Warner Bros. Läther fiasco -- leading to litigation and making them persona non grata to the majors (not bad things, IMHO), while both gave the finger to the majors (yet neither could really be called "indie," at least as that term is commonly understood, could they?) sad thing is, the squabbles probably did hurt their music (or at least temporarily diverted their energies). FZ and Prince, then, are living proof that Ian McKaye, Anni DeFranco, and Steve Albini are onto something with their respective anti-label schticks (though their musical ethos are drastically different than either Zappa or Prince).

where Prince clearly has it over FZ -- genuine hits (as opposed to songs that made it to the charts as "novelties"). which means that Prince could discipline his muse to get onto the charts (there's a great FZ quote which escapes me now, where he thumbs his nose at aiming for Billboard success). OTOH, Zappa regularly sold out stadiums during Seventies/early-Eighties on the basis of his guitar- godhood (drawing in the Bic-lighting/Van Halen T-shirt wearing crowds), which is also a form of commercial success.

"sy borg" is possibly my least favourite piece of music of all time: b.w*tson once sent it to me on an otherwise entertaining blindfold tape and i ranted viciously for PAGES (to his baffled amusement)

prince was best when he was being cheeky: why did he stop?

And just what is wrong with Ween? You do know that they worship Prince as much (if not more) than Zappa, yes?
There's absolutely nothing wrong with Ween (or with Zappa for that matter) and I wasn't implying that there was either. And you're probably right too!

Did you ever see MBV live, Tad? ;-)

Zappa strikes me as a very talented individual who, despite being very productive, squandered what he had. Maybe it's just a case of my not sharing his sensibility. I have heard a lot of music from Frank Zappa that I guess is fairly complex, but which does nothing to draw me in. Lots of jumping and cutting, but to what purpose? The lyrics usually get in the way for me. "You Are What You Is" (the song) was not bad, and the video for it was excellent (climaxing with someone impaling a bagel on the hood of a guy in a Ku Klux Klan outfit). "Freak Out" made me laugh at certain points. But overall not enough heart in his music for me, and not enough of anything else to really make up for it. It's been a long time since I've heard any of his guitar material, so I'm not sure what I think of it, but whatever I heard didn't make a lasting impression. Example of really awful Zappa song: "There's a Ship Arriving Too Late to Save a Drowning Witch."

Prince has made a lot music I like. (Purple Rain, some stuff from Controversy and Sign of the Times, in particular.) At times I find the whole "deeply spiritual man" thing a little ridiculous, but I like some of the music that comes out of it.

obv. not; my brane is still ringing from that particular night on the town. years from now when my inevitable tinnitus is discovered, it will all lead back to that bastard sheilds...

(of course when all my perversions are discovered, it will all lead back to prince...advantage: prince.)

No, I have not (unfortunately). NOt that that little thing would stop me from a good rant :-p Anyway, did they manage to recreate their studio sound at all live? I'm genuinely curious now.

Anyway, an interesting comparison -- FZ's guitar solo on "Watermelon in Easter Hay" (the Zappa Rosetta Stone, for the uninitiated) always reminds me of Prince's "Purple Rain" for some reason. Prob. just me, and that reminiscence predated this thread.

They fucking *trumped* it. All I remember from the two shows were sheer walls of sound and the queasiness of the crowd, a moshpit in sonic molasses. If a bit of the treble was lost here and there, that was an understandable sacrifice, the vocals still bled through it all like a hazy dream.

It's hard to imagine an equivalent question/answer/selection paradigm for Zappa. Hence, Prince by a mile.

That said: I do like two or three Zappa songs, esp. "G-Spot Tornado," which anticipates Squarepusher's _Big Loada_ in a lot of ways.

Those are some high standards she set. I guess "I Could Never Take the Place of Your Man" would be too ironic.

same logic as Mr. Perry, only reverse the variables. though i still love Prince's music.

so yeah, my vote goes to Mr. Zappa, at least till Prince tries to do something like Yellow Shark, Uncle Meat, or Civilization Phase III.

And when FZ was tempted to dabble in rap, he stuck that assignment to one of his hired hands (Ike Willis) instead of tackling it himself.

Res ipsa loquitur, IMNSHO.

bah! you don't listen to recs anyway...

First girl that I meet

MOUNTAINS EXTENDED MIX

my name is zappa, and i am dead

Say what you will about Mr. Zappa, at least he never released anything as toe-curlingly bad as "My Name Is Prince."

Say what you will about Prince, at least he never released an album of unironic muzak (Jazz From Hell).

also, it would be hard to believe that zappa was as good a basketball player as prince is.

I vote for the one with the amazing lascivious guitar and mixing-board skillz, the pottymouthed enemy of the PMRC with the major grudge against the Brothers Warner and the too-enormous-and-eclectic-to-fully-grasp back catalog, much of which is still lying in vaults waiting (maybe forever) to be released. And disgusting facial hair.

^^^awesome post

Yeah, that was remarkable, MBV.

I think I like Prince's sense of humor more.