Will Oldham/Palace/Bonnie Prince Billie: S&D

favourite song title, rather. the album from which it's taken, arise, therefor, is very dull though, imo. i'm not an expert on the man, though my brother was very enthousiastic about the palace brothers' there is no-one that will take care of you.

your appreciation of oldham probably rises and falls with three things: a. your appreciation of his basic shtick (rich indie kid from louisville, ex-child actor playing faux-ozarks ballads), b. the rather...cracked quality of his voice, c. the quality of the songwriting itself (which i think is actually quite high if not exactly immediately memorable...cf. my above comment about not realizing i owned almost all his records.)

it's too early in the morning to do a full on s&d but for right now search:

"there is no one what will take care of you" - the first palace brothers albun, released in its first edition anonymously, not unlike john fahey's first lp. obviously his songwriting and voice are at their earliest but not necesarily weakest: when he stretches out he sounds like a particularly enervated neil young.

"days in the wake" - the most stripped down release in the oldham catalogue, right down to the jandek referencing cover art. mostly just will and guitar, quite a few emotional bombs/great lines dropped, an LP a shade over 27 minutes.

"i see a darkness" - probably his all around best record, 38 minutes, short and sweet. dig the celtic/islands vibe on "madeline mary" and the fuzzed out sub-dub bass of "death to everyone." also, the last track may be the prettiest thing he's ever written.

"ease down the road" - tom favorably compared these to the fat & happy & bearded dylan of the (mid?) 70s. he's right; a contented oldham is not necessarily a happy oldham, but he's certainly janutier than normally.

also SEARCH: the johnny cash cover of "i see a darkness" on american iii: solitary man. a mediation on a vision of death by a man who at the time was staring it directly in the face.

The only album I rarely listen to anymore is Arise Therefore, the rest are in constant rotation.

Search the Almost Heaven EP too, with Rian Murphy.

Personally though I amn't listening to that kind of music now, I think Will Oldham is a great man. I see a darkness is probably one of my favourite songs ever, I forget if it made my perfect 15 or not.

His cover of AC/DC Big Balls is pretty good too. I don't have all his stuff but I wish I did. I think what makes him interesting is his voice which can convey desperation and sadness better than almost anyone else I've ever heard.

Search Also:Every Mothers Son, and most of I see a darkness album.

I don't know if I would destroy the likes of Arise, Therefore, Joya, and his inumerable EPs and "versions," but they generally don't do much for me. He definitely hit a slack patch there for a while around A,T.

When he first started out, he appeared to be the epitome of something I really hate--the po-faced roots-music dilettante. But there was something so idiosyncratic and cracked about the first single and album that I was hooked anyway. Then I saw him live for the first time: no acoustic guitars, no wood-smoke croon--he was leading a rock band and wearing leather pants that laced up the sides. Confounded again. Then he put out Days in the Wake: solo acoustic, with tons more of those great what-the-hell-is-that-all-about songs. After that I paid close attention just in case I might miss something.

Now I take him at his word that he's feeling his way forward, trying to write about emotional states that aren't always rational, or that he has trouble articulating rationally. And while even the best albums he's done since have their weak songs--or even moments when it sounds like he's just a musical slummer whacking off with both hands-- like as not he comes up with a few tunes that describe or tap into something I've felt but couldn't have described either. And then there's his singing, which is almost always worth a listen, even though it annoys me to distraction when he chews gum while singing live.

As a side note, I also like the way he casually drops the erotic and vulgar into his lyrics. I mean, some of his lyrics are bizarrely, explicitly sex-obsessed, but that stuff is never there to shock or serve as a punchline (well, except maybe that bit about fucking a mountain). In his songs wrong-headed trysts, cum stains, blowjobs, and cunnilingus are just as much a part of life as not knowing how you feel. Seems pretty sound to me.

here's a pic of Will

• lost blues and other songs (singles/rarities comp) - search "lost blues", "marriage", "west palm beach"
• side 2 of viva last blues
• "one with the birds", "patience/take however long you want", "little boy blue", "trudy dies" (the 7" version) singles

definitely some melody there for you. check out the peel session of "you have cum in your hair..." which I like better than the original.

i find him interesting because he has a great voice (narrative- wise, but also vocally) uh... is it indie-pride week yet?

I got Arise, Therefore today. PERFECT for my mood.

Colin, you're not alone, I am also a big fan of Arise, Therefore. I think it's one of his most consistent works. I am very much looking forward to his upcoming greatest hits record, which I heard will be re-recordings.

It's hard to explain the mystique, I'm aware of the pretense of it all, but somehow, I find him very talented despite the obviously forced illusions. I think he'd be great to have a beer with. I don't own all of his records but the ones I do have I would not trade. Fair enough?

When I saw him, he didn't so much change as flesh out some of the earlier, sparser melodies. A lot of the really meandering/weird stuff from Days In The Wake, for example, was given a nice full band treatment. He also played with solo electric guitar for about 1/3 of the set, the band coming out to rejoin him for the end.

Further comments... there's a six minute long, full-band version of "No More Workhorse Blues" on this bootleg from Austria I found. Crazy. Parts of it sound spanish, then when the song climax the drums really start to come in. Unrecognizable initially!

There's also a wonderfully twisted piece written by will in today's guardian.

(p.s. THANKS NA!!!!!!)

A question, though: how can I find out who played on/produced the songs, without tracking down the original singles? The big Oldham websites don't seem to have that info. I'd like to know which song(s) were produced by Kramer, Adam & Eve, etc...

there's always been a protean quality to his music, which often goes overlooked largely because of the superhuman insularity of his misterioso hillbilly shtick. people tend to link him with these old balladeer types, which a certain prominent vein of his music does encourage. but i hear--sublimated and reconstituted beautifully in the last 3 records--a whole bunch of less-austere influences (sorry mark) there, like a thousand singer-songwriters and alterindie bands.

I don't know why I never really responded to the other Palace albums (though I like some of the songs on "Days in the Wake"). These early singles are just another breed - not just the songs themselves, but the production, the playing, the atmosphere...

"just to see my holly home" is a very funny song. it's about, i guess, the dark side of the whole "nuclear family" thing--the family has a remarkable closeness, but it comes from denigrating and attacking all others and ultimately locking them and the world out forever. oldham cheerfully places mysogynystic musings next to a kind of idealization of his partner/family. anyway this is a boring exegesis but what makes it work is how oldham finds a peculiar balance b/t silliness and earnestness. the balance wouldn't hold if the song had such an insinuating sound.

why the fuck is there a british band called Palace

"Their debut album on Fiction records, So Long Forever (2016), trawled the wreckage of Wyndham’s shattered psyche following the death of a family member and the break-up of both his parents’ and his own relationships, and chimed with the times"

no thank you

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpSCDm9HJmc

I felt the last record a bit of letdown after the excellent I Made A Place, but man oh man The Purple Bird is sounding amazing so far (only played side A)

does anyone know why it's on No Quarter and not Drag City

Not sure, but they also released an album he did last year with Nathan Salsburg and Tyler Trotter.

that one is amazing, two side-long lungfish covers.

Yeah, it's great! Looking forward to the new one, supposed to get here tomorrow. But I actually that the last one was really good too!

does anyone know why it's on No Quarter and not Drag City

― Murgatroid, Thursday, January 30, 2025 6:12 AM (three hours ago)

check the latest Kreative Kontrol podcast interview with Will, he talks about it a little bit, nothing definitive but just that there may be some behind the scenes drama.

https://podcasts.apple.com/ca/podcast/ep-944-bonnie-prince-billy/id652522142?i=1000686107011

Bandcamp listening party in about 30 mins (2 p.m. Eastern 1/30):

https://t.co/zyR1md2CPM

today at the two o'clock hour of the eastern United States. 14 o'clock.

— Boniface Billy (@signifyingwolf) January 30, 2025

xp i've listened to this episode like twice now (good thing the interview is short) and I don't hear anything like what you're describing

yeah I also couldn't find that bit?

Mrs Ippei may be a subscriber -- Vish of Kreative Kontrol has switched to podcasting full-time, so we who don't pay only get excerpted interviews

ah

yes, 53 minute of patreon version

Will on Drag City on Kreative Konrtol:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QxZvJsRPLnE

Yikes…?

I think a simple "no comment" might have been better. The cagey lack of specificity here will almost surely lead to some wild speculations

...

it's so vague that there's nothing to speculate with

Yeah, it's hard to speculate, but seems like he was hinting at an issue with maybe just Dan Koretzky? Since he went on to say how much he still likes the other folks at the label.

Anyway no offence to the I’m sure fine folks at No Quarter, I hope Will patches things up with DC in time for his next record, BPB was my entry point into the DC catalog and the first artist I think of when I think of that label, I’m sure this is true for many others

Yeah, I still dig a lot of what Drag City puts out, I just wish they hadn't nearly abandoned the CD option for most of their releases.

I gotta wonder if its something political (like so many other falling-outs over the last couple years)

Some interesting songs (until 2000) like Smog (until 2000 too!)

"I gotta wonder if its something political (like so many other falling-outs over the last couple years)

― waste of compute (One Eye Open)"

I can assure you that this is not the case

A lot of Drag City's resources are being held for the next Joanna Newsom record and Will likes to move fast.

I'm sad that this thread is all about vague label gossip, instead of how good the new album is

Mine just finally got delivered last night! Hoping to give my first spin later today.

A lot of Drag City's resources are being held for the next Joanna Newsom record and Will likes to move fast.

Had that same thought.

Also did the Bandcamp listening party last week for the album--love it so far. Obliterates any Gen X idea of "you don't want to get caught sounding polished" (though BPB did that a long time ago once before with Nashville cats).

i didnt mean to imply anything untoward, he just sounds so intense & personal in that clip, but also yeah, idgaf. the new record is really good, i've listened to it a bunch, its been kind of just what i need to get through the last week or so of political terror

boise idaho is so good

I was the biggest Will Oldham fan in my 20s (like I travelled to see him 3 nights in a row in Vancouver, etc.) and I still am a fan (though you can guess I admittedly haven't kept up with him as much in recent years) but I'm not as fond of this new one as much as you guys are

idk maybe I prefer him a bit more brooding?

There are great songs on this one, in their way, but at the risk of "the older stuff was better!" banality, there has been something comfortable, domestic, unthreatening in his music, at least in the last 10 years or so. Nothing wrong with that, perhaps, and I know his personal circumstances have changed. But I always thought the point of the various monikers, 'Bonnie Prince Billy' included, was to ward off too close a connection between the songs and the life.

Maybe I just want a bit more abstraction, some archaic diction, a bit more left to the imagination?

I love the new album but he’s a prick. This is from the Stereogum interview. It’s annoying.

How did you first encounter her and her music?

OLDHAM: It was 2002 maybe. We did a tour of the West Coast that was spurred on by a band called Rainywood, which morphed into Brightblack Morning Light. And we did three annual tours together. The first one was the West Coast. And in putting my band together, I think I was talking to Kyle Field of Little Wings and I think we figured out we were gonna rehearse in Portland, Oregon, and I asked if he knew of a keyboard player. And he referred me to his friend Rob Kieswetter, who records under the name Bobby Birdman. And he’s from Nevada City, Grass Valley area.

And so we finished the tour. Last show was in Solana Beach, California, close to San Diego. And all the musicians dispersed except for me, Colin Gagon, and Rob Kieswetter, and we had to return all the gear to Isaac Brock from Modest Mouse. We borrowed a bunch of gear from him. And on the way, Rob was like, “Why don’t we stop in Nevada City and play a show? There’s a movie theater there. I can just set something up.” So we went, and I remember seeing this young woman walking around, and she definitely had an interesting air about her, but I didn’t meet her.

In the van the next day, Rob said, “Oh, my friend Joanna gave me her CD-R, and she wanted you to hear it. I think it’s pretty good if you want to listen to it.” And yeah, I thought it was incredibly novel and compelling and interesting. And for the next tour with Rainywood — I can’t remember if they were Brightblack yet or not; we basically just moved one set of states over for the next summer — I asked her if she would open four or five shows. So we began just south of Solana Beach in San Diego the next year and then went into Arizona, New Mexico, Utah. And she played a handful of those shows, as did Dawn McCarthy.

I would often talk to Drag City about artists that I thought they might be interested in releasing, some of which they would not, and so that’s when I created a, you know, a sub-label Palace Records imprint to put things out like Alasdair Roberts’ Appendix Out project or Dave Pajo’s M. It was first called M before it was Papa M or Aerial M. But Drag City, for some reason, they liked the Joanna Newsom. And now we’re in the quandary we’re in today with her.

What’s the quandary?

OLDHAM: I’m kind of joking, but I’ve also just always been like — well, I don’t know. Is she making music? I don’t know.

Oh, that quandary.

OLDHAM: Yeah, I mean, part of it is I appreciate artists who have a respectful relationship with their audience, and I’m not sure that’s evident there. But her husband makes a lot of money, so she doesn’t have to worry about it. Maybe if my wife made a lot of money, I would disappear and have children.

jesus!
that's rude

Yeah, that's gross. Is he hinting that he needs more credit for bringing her to Drag City's attention? Jealousy? Regardless, not a good look.

A few off-the-cuff remarks about how she married rich seem tame considering that Bluebeard song but w/e

I always had very complicated feelings about the Bluebeard song, not because I swear any allegiance to dudes, but because there was something awfully traditional about it - I think you can write about men who leave destruction in their wake, men who take advantage of their position as men to be emotionally careless at best and deceitful and exploitative at worst, without asking, "Who is going to bear your beautiful children? Who will take care of you when you're old and dying?" It sort of tries to paint patriarchal domesticity, the family and a woman's place in it, as feminist. I don't particularly like that, nor tbh the orientalist imagery.

I still do like the song a lot because there's something that rings true about it; I'm just not sure I trust Joanna to articulate it properly, or to have the imagination needed to envision something beyond it. I say this as someone who loves MEM and Ys a lot, and that they are better than anything Will has ever done.

That being said, I thought the song was directed more at Callahan than Oldham, despite the "Master and Everyone" reference. I have absolutely no confidence that either were not dickheads/stereotypical men in their day (or tbh even now).

Re: Will's quote about Joanna, I can't defend any of that if I take his words at face value. But after reading the entire interview, if I try to be generous and essentially put words in his mouth, I can see how someone whose life is so embedded in music-making - whose sense of community cannot be divorced from the practice of playing music with others - would be disappointed or even bitter to see a peer remove herself and marry into celebrity and money.

I'm sure she sees it very differently. I have no doubt that as a woman she was pushed away from that sense of belonging as much as she removed herself from it. But I'm also not too enthusiastic about the life she chose for herself. I'm a total nobody - and I'd never have this choice in the first place - but you wouldn't catch me dead attempting to enter that world either. I've loved her music a lot in the past, but I'm not sure I'm particularly interested in hearing more of her from the place she inhabits now.

I think I'm misunderstanding what the issue with her and Drag City is and how it relates to Will.

The issue is the limited time, money, and resources a smallish label like Drag City has for the pressing and promotion of a record. Joanna Newsome is the biggest seller of any Drag City release. She’s been currently recording new music, but doesn’t have a deadline or anything. But when that record is finished it will take up a lot of Drag Citys workload and they have to set all that aside for a record without a set release date. Instead of waiting for all that to get figured out Will just released his finished, and kinda most commercial in years record on a different label. And he seems mildly salty about it.

Guys

Just to be clear, Will’s move away from DC has nothing to do with either DC proper or Joanna Newsom, it was an other thing that is so boring that all this speculation seems idk ~~Ozymandian~~ in comparison

Also thanks rairun for that generous post

#dragcitydrama

Brother JT thinks Black Bananas are too macho

Drag City is releasing the soundtrack to Amanda Milius’ Trump documentary. Alternatively, Drag City isn’t releasing the soundtrack to Amanda Milius’ Trump documentary

'

Back to The Purple Bird though, this really is excellent! I can see why some might not like this, but it's hitting me really well today.

“keeping secrets will destroy you” might be one of his best genuinely

Both Purple Bird and Keeping Secrets have hit my ears as returns to form, as different as they are. I'm a big John Prine fan and Purple Bird seems to bear his influence heavily, in a way that threatens to contaminate what makes Oldham special, but he manages to pull it off. The cleverness of Oldham's lyrics has always been a trademark but he has typically deployed it more for elegance than whimsy (not that Prine can't do both too, but his legacy here - and often - lies more on the whimsical side). Keeping Secrets is more what I think of as classic BPB, delicate sweetness with an undercurrent of darkness and tension that is usually there if it catches the light right. All that said, with a guy like Oldham, he works so much that I can never tell whether my digging new stuff has more to do with me, cycling back around to him and taking an interest in his latest, than it does with the quality of a particular new project. Either way, I'm enjoying listening to him again these days!