BEST EVER JAZZ ALBUM redone(AGAIN)

WOW a lot of great albums on this list. For me, tho: Miles Davis' In A Silent Way.

― Daniel, Esq., Sunday, 4 October 2009 01:38 (17 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Krzysztof Komeda Astigmatic (1966)

the only one i don't own / haven't heard

― moonship journey to baja, Sunday, 4 October 2009 01:55 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Don't know it either.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 01:55 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

CTRL+F "basie" not found
CTRL+F "armstrong" not found
CTRL+F "billie" not found

probably voting my favorite things or far east suite but RYM users up on some bullshit imo

― a full circle lol (J0hn D.), Sunday, 4 October 2009 02:00 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I could probably go on these 50 records for quite a good while, if I had to just listen to this list. There seem to be six I haven't heard.

― earlnash, Sunday, 4 October 2009 02:01 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

There's no Charlie Parker on there either, so yeah, it isn't complete by any stretch. It is really more about when the LP took over from the 78 in the late 50s into the golden period of jazz LPs into the late 60s, which is probably what they are trying to get at I would think.

― earlnash, Sunday, 4 October 2009 02:03 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

voted Olé Coltrane for the sublime title track.

20 others tied for second :)

― nicky lo-fi, Sunday, 4 October 2009 02:03 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

billie holiday is at 68

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 02:08 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

http://rateyourmusic.com/customchart?page=1&chart_type=top&type=album&year=alltime&genre_include=1&genres=jazz&include=both&origin_countries=&limit=none&countries=

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 02:08 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

80 Charlie Parker & Dizzy Gillespie Bird and Diz (1952)

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 02:09 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

There's no Charlie Parker on there either, so yeah, it isn't complete by any stretch. It is really more about when the LP took over from the 78 in the late 50s into the golden period of jazz LPs into the late 60s, which is probably what they are trying to get at I would think.

I guess, but I mean...there's a strong tradition of song in jazz. An awesome tradition. Totally unrepresented on the list, you'd think from this list that no jazz vocalist had ever made a great album. Like, The Audience With Betty Carter, maybe? Or Lady in Satin, I know not everybody can get down w/those arrangements but Billie did a bunch of records on Verve that I can listen to front to back happily for weeks. Or Nat King Cole. Or Carmen McRae.

― a full circle lol (J0hn D.), Sunday, 4 October 2009 02:09 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

121 Count Basie Basie (1957)

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 02:10 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

herman I know you'll join me in saying that there's at least one Basie record that's better than
Cowboy Bebop by the Seatbelts (#58)

― a full circle lol (J0hn D.), Sunday, 4 October 2009 02:14 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

i have never heard it, nor do i watch anime, but im sure theres a lot of albums on that list thats better than that!

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 02:39 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ive checked out the top 200 and theres some awesome albums in that.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 02:41 (16 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

herman I know you'll join me in saying that there's at least one Basie record that's better than
Cowboy Bebop by the Seatbelts (#58)

baaaaaaarf

internet users are the biggest savages imo

― moonship journey to baja, Sunday, 4 October 2009 02:54 (15 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

okay i'm a novice but i bought kind of blue about 10 years ago when i was about 14 and every single electric miles record which i've got into in the last year or so makes my head spin 10,000 more rapidly...

― I see what this is (Local Garda), Sunday, 4 October 2009 03:48 (14 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

10.000 times...

― I see what this is (Local Garda), Sunday, 4 October 2009 03:48 (14 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

stating that yr not THAT impressed by kind of blue is one of the biggest possible challops

― xhuxk mangione (deej), Sunday, 4 October 2009 04:00 (14 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

It's a bit strange to me that the only Bill Evans in the top 50 is Explorations. Is this a studio-album only thing? Because I'd think Sunday at the Village Vanguard or Waltz for Debby would make more sense.

― Bay-L.A. Bar Talk (Hurting 2), Sunday, 4 October 2009 04:04 (14 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

No Weather Report, "Head Hunters" or "Future Shock" no credibility.
Voted "Kind Of Blue" though.

― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 4 October 2009 12:24 (6 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Many wonderful records there, but...

No AYLER? Spiritual Unity and Live At Greenwich Village are essential surely?

No Pharoah Sanders? No Brotzmann? No William Parker? No David S Ware? No Dark Magus or Get Up With It? Only one Ornette? No Elevator Over The Hill? No Liberation Music Orchestra? No Evan Parker? No Braxton? No Bailey? No Don Cherry? No Joe McPhee? No Brotherhood of Breath?

Early jazz is poorly represented too. I guess that's due to the lack of classic totemic albums or standardised collections.

Headhunters: nowhere as good as Sextant, which is much funkier, weirder and cosmic.

― Stew, Sunday, 4 October 2009 12:53 (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Headhunters has tunes. That is important. Sextant is just weird.

― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 4 October 2009 13:03 (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I have such crappy indie-rock taste in jazz. My favourites of these 50 are In A Silent Way and Journey In Satchidananda. I've only heard about 10 of the others though.

― Tim F, Sunday, 4 October 2009 13:12 (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

stating that yr not THAT impressed by kind of blue is one of the biggest possible challops

is it? i'm not trying to be controversial...it's just what I think.

― I see what this is (Local Garda), Sunday, 4 October 2009 13:13 (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Deej means it's a cliche. Or at least it's very typical for people conditioned on modern rock/pop/etc. to check out Kind of Blue, be underwhelmed, then gravitate towards electric miles.

I described my taste in jazz as "crappy indie-rock" for similar reasons.

― Tim F, Sunday, 4 October 2009 13:20 (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Out to Lunch! v. Olé Coltrane v. Journey in Satchidananda v. Juju - Dunno what I am going to pick.

Kind of Blue is kind of boring, sorry.

― I'M LEGALLY A MIDGET (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 4 October 2009 13:36 (5 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ah okay right I didn't get he meant it in that way. yeah possibly. nail me to the challop cross!

― I see what this is (Local Garda), Sunday, 4 October 2009 13:49 (4 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

a love supreme. it's something of a cliche to claim that as the best jazz album of all time, but for good reason.

mingus ah um, in a silent way, ascension and shape of jazz to come just bringing up the rear.

― m the g, Sunday, 4 October 2009 15:12 (3 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's a great list, tho. i've heard maybe half of these, i think. voting for Monk '56.

― a single man owns you (Ioannis), Sunday, 4 October 2009 15:49 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

"kind of blue is boring" = "i have ADD"

― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 4 October 2009 15:53 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Writing off "Kind Of Blue" is just as pointless as writing off "Sgt. Pepper".

― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 4 October 2009 16:00 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Geir Hongro telling people about jazz.

It's absolutely not like writing off Sgt. Pepper. Most people buy Kind Of Blue and if they decide they don't like it will never buy another jazz album. Other than lex, who else would write off a whole genre on account of disliking Sgt. Pepper?

Miles has done more enjoyable and more challanging records and I'm guessing the folks on here who are bringing the KofB challops know that.

― I'M LEGALLY A MIDGET (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 4 October 2009 16:07 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Well, my point is that, well, "A Kind Of Blue" is obviously the most famous jazz record of all time and also generally acclaimed, not least among those of us who are not jazz fans. I know some purists tend to dislike anything that is liked by non-jazz-fans, and they may find it "boring" for that reason, just like some stupid people will write off "Sgt. Pepper" just because it's famous and, well, popular with the baby boomers.

But I still consider it pointless on both accounts. Both albums are obviously very essential.

― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 4 October 2009 16:26 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

more enjoyable

I enjoy KoB as much as any Miles record.

more challanging

not something I really look for or like in music.

― hope this helps (Granny Dainger), Sunday, 4 October 2009 16:33 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Kind Of Blue is great even if i prefer a dozen or more miles albums. Sgt Peppers, 2 great songs aside, is not very good at best.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 16:44 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I never said it was a bad album. I like it; just not enough to ever think to pull it often.

― I'M LEGALLY A MIDGET (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 4 October 2009 16:55 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

alot of jazz albums on rym are listed under subgenres of jazz (free jazz, avant-garde jazz, vocal jazz, etc) and won't show up on the list linked.

try this list instead:
http://rateyourmusic.com/customchart?page=1&chart_type=top&type=album&year=alltime&genre_include=1&genres=jazz&include_child_genres=t&include=both&origin_countries=&limit=none&countries=

― nil!, Sunday, 4 October 2009 16:57 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

also, rym's ranking algorith boosts albums with more votes. vocal jazz or jazz standard records tend to be less popular on rym, and many don't garner enough votes to crack the top 100 despite a gaudy rating avg.

― nil!, Sunday, 4 October 2009 17:04 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

" Suggest Ban Permalink

Writing off "Kind Of Blue" is just as pointless as writing off "Sgt. Pepper"."

They're both wildly over-rated. The difference is that KoB is still pretty decent.

While a lot of my favorites aren't on here (which is kind of ILX kabuki to immediately mention whatever's not on the list), there's enough strong stuff that I would nominate unprompted that I don't feel particularly constrained in my voting.

I think the list also shows how much jazz kicked rock's ass in the '60s.

― Giorgio Marauder (I eat cannibals), Sunday, 4 October 2009 17:14 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ok who wants this poll to be locked and use the http://rateyourmusic.com/customchart?page=1&chart_type=top&type=album&year=alltime&genre_include=1&genres=jazz&include_child_genres=t&include=both&origin_countries=&limit=none&countries= list instead?

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 17:25 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

(without the zappa album btw)

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 17:25 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I don't mind mayne. What does 'Ascension' sound like btw? After the football I may give it a listen.

― I'M LEGALLY A MIDGET (a hoy hoy), Sunday, 4 October 2009 17:30 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

first word that comes to mind when i think of Ascension is "density". the playing is wonderful. i really need to be in the right mood, and there's no way to absorb it in one listen. but if you like free form jazz, i think it's the pinnacle

― outdoor_miner, Sunday, 4 October 2009 17:43 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

maybe what i wrote about <a href="http://musik.antville.org/stories/1236915/";;;>ascension</a>, my fave album from 1965, a while ago in my old blog may give an idea about how it sounds:

<q>... Ascension surely is a challenging listen but it is by no means cacophony. There even is a structure in the 40 minutes piece. In between the ensembles almost everyone has got a solo and the others provide a background "carpet of sound" (Klangteppich). I get the impression that the collective lifts up the soloist who slowly emerges from the crowd, stands in the centre for two to three minutes and then returns back into the womb of the band after. Especially the overblown sax solos are outbursts of pure energy. Altogether a perfect equilibrium of the community and the individual. In this sense Ascension does not only stand for a spiritual experience but also for a shared experience. ...</q>

― alex in mainhattan, Sunday, 4 October 2009 18:08 (38 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I think the thing is with kind of blue is that on first listen, to modern ears, it's nice, somewhat unobtrusive...and almost cheesy. if what got you into jazz was wild playing and high-energy improvisation (hello!) then it's going to seem like boring dinner jazz. I can totally understand why someone wouldn't like it.

don't get me wrong, it's a fantastic album, and I love it madly...now. but not not at first. its charms are subtle, and may require a bit of historical context before they reveal themselves.

I think the list also shows how much jazz kicked rock's ass in the '60s.

absolutely.

― m the g, Sunday, 4 October 2009 18:25 (21 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

A lot of people think real jazz is boring bland dinner/coffee table jazz (sometimes with vocals) and the stuf ilm likes they would hate. Probably on some other board right now that stuff is in another poll and later coltrane/davis etc is hated.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 18:27 (18 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Anyone who has Spotify should find most of these albums on it easily. So enjoy!

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 18:31 (14 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

For me is between Mingus' 'Black Saint' and Yusef Lateef's 'eastern sounds'.

― Moka, Sunday, 4 October 2009 18:44 (2 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 18:47 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Well, now I can't vote Yusef Lateef so I guess Mingus is the one to get my vote.

― Moka, Sunday, 4 October 2009 18:47 (2 hours ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

and sorry j0hn d for this poll still not having what you want. Maybe you want to run a vocal jazz poll?

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 18:48 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

ahh sorry moka.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 18:48 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I guess there's always going to be something missing that people like. Cant cater for everyone.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 18:51 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Now there's "Head Hunters" at least. :)

Including child genders is often very important at RYM. :)

― Tied Up In Geir (Geir Hongro), Sunday, 4 October 2009 18:58 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

well, it's not a site i'm familiar with really. Only ever looked at it really when its been linked to from here. I think I may have done a poll based on its lists before so thanks for the tip about child genres.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 19:13 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Weirded out by ppl finding KoB hard to understand/relate to/appreciate on 1st listen. Agree that Bitches Brew/Dark Magus electric Miles is much rawer, weirder, more psychedelic & rock, but I'm with Geir here: KoB is one of the most immediately and obviously appealing records I've ever heard. Up there with Sgt. Peppers, as he says, and that comparison doesn't bother me at all. It's a great list, overall, especially when you consider that it represents a blind, broad consensus formed without the intent to create such a list.

― That's not just me saying that, that's the Pentagon. (contenderizer), Sunday, 4 October 2009 19:24 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Voted Money Jungle, strictly for perversity's sake.

― That's not just me saying that, that's the Pentagon. (contenderizer), Sunday, 4 October 2009 19:25 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

"if what got you into jazz was wild playing and high-energy improvisation (hello!) then it's going to seem like boring dinner jazz."

Yeah, and I definitely came at it from that point of view. I mean, it's one of those albums that I like, but it just doesn't captivate me the way that most everything that came after it does. But, by way of copping to biases, I also hate the vast majority of vocal jazz, and I don't like ballads pretty much regardless of the genre, but ballads with vocals are worse. Most of vocal jazz or (as John put it) the "song tradition" of jazz, I think is more interesting as pop than as jazz, and so it's not something that I reach for when I want jazz. Like, St. James Infirmary is one of my favorite songs in the history of ever, but while I realize it's connected to the history of jazz, it's something I think of first as itself, then as jazz, rather than jazz first.

I realize that's all convoluted, but jazz is convoluted too.

― Giorgio Marauder (I eat cannibals), Sunday, 4 October 2009 19:35 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

It was pretty easy for me to vote for Journey in Satchidananda in the previous poll, but now that Karma is on the list too, man it's difficult to choose between those two.

― Tuomas, Sunday, 4 October 2009 19:38 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I voted Karma, Tuomas (the main reason i did the repoll tbh)

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 19:39 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

but it was a tough choice.
Again it annoys me when so many of these albums get left off so called best album ever lists just "because its jazz".

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 19:40 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

"Weirded out by ppl finding KoB hard to understand/relate to/appreciate on 1st listen."

I think that's actually a mark against it for a lot of listeners—it's really easy to appreciate without thinking about it. There's a lot more going on that's worth thinking about, but it's not like, say, Sun Ship, where from the first you're like, Ok, I'm going to have to pay attention because this is not going to be easy. Which is another reason why I tend to think of KoB as a pop album—immediate, catchy, "easy listening." I'm not against pop music, and I think that KoB has a lot going on, but it's also really easy to ignore all that, and for me at least, to tune it out. Especially since it's one of the most overplayed jazz albums in history. It was playing softly at the Albertson's last weekend, and it was like, y'know, there's no way to give this the attention it deserves.

― Giorgio Marauder (I eat cannibals), Sunday, 4 October 2009 19:43 (1 hour ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

People who love Karma, you gotta listen to the version of "The Creator Has a Master Plan" by Louis Armstrong. Yes, there really is a Louis Armstrong version! It's a duet between Armstrong and Leon Thomas, I think they were on the same label around the time it was recorded. It's not perfect song in any way, Armstrong sounds like he's just ad libbing through the whole song, and it ends too quickly, but it's still fun to hear Satchmo tackle "The Creator Has a Master Plan". Thomas's solo version of the tune is nice too, I think it's kinda too short as well, but you get to hear verses whose lyrics were printed on the liner notes of Karma, even though Thomas only sings the chorus on that version.

― Tuomas, Sunday, 4 October 2009 19:48 (59 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

it's really easy to appreciate without thinking about it.

well, not really... it's all about your perspective and your usual listening habits, isn't it? those who are melodically/harmonically-minded will warm to KoB immediately but might find dark magus 'challenging'. my own default setting is noise and chaos and speed and harshness, so I'm exactly the other way around.

surely 'challenging' is all a matter of what you're used to, not a quality inherent in the music itself?

― m the g, Sunday, 4 October 2009 19:48 (59 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Agree that Albertsons is not the ideal environment for deep listening.

― That's not just me saying that, that's the Pentagon. (contenderizer), Sunday, 4 October 2009 19:49 (58 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

for god's sake don't restart this poll again, man, but Herbie Hancock Empyrean Isles (1964) is in there twice (#35 & #40).

― a single man owns you (Ioannis), Sunday, 4 October 2009 20:00 (47 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Did somebody upthread sneer at this list for not including Peter fucking Brötzmann?

― That's not just me saying that, that's the Pentagon. (contenderizer), Sunday, 4 October 2009 20:04 (43 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

take it to RYM

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 20:11 (36 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

Did somebody upthread sneer at this list for not including Peter fucking Brötzmann?

yes, and rightly so.

― m the g, Sunday, 4 October 2009 20:12 (35 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

as is Miles Smiles xxxp

― wit and wisdom (snrub 'n' tug remix) (The Reverend), Sunday, 4 October 2009 20:41 (6 minutes ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

and sorry j0hn d for this poll still not having what you want. Maybe you want to run a vocal jazz poll?

I'm not mad or nothin! really more excited for an interesting discussion, for real. Are instro jazz folks really pretty anti-vocal jazz (which is weird to me, it's not like Trane didn't love trad jazz with his whole heart & any head has to give it up for Louis Armstrong imo) or don't take it as "seriously" (all obv baggage of a word like "serious" unavoidable here I guess). To me, especially when you get into Billie or Betty Carter, we're talking about records without I would consider any jazz basics collection incomplete, not that I'm a great authority on jazz but it just seems like there's a discourse at work that privileges some things in a list that like, tryin to unpack what that discourse is about

― a full circle lol (J0hn D.), Sunday, 4 October 2009 20:47 (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

lol

if theres any mistakes point them out next month

Voted Out to Lunch.

and sorry j0hn d for this poll still not having what you want. Maybe you want to run a vocal jazz poll?

I'm not mad or nothin! really more excited for an interesting discussion, for real. Are instro jazz folks really pretty anti-vocal jazz (which is weird to me, it's not like Trane didn't love trad jazz with his whole heart & any head has to give it up for Louis Armstrong imo) or don't take it as "seriously" (all obv baggage of a word like "serious" unavoidable here I guess). To me, especially when you get into Billie or Betty Carter, we're talking about records without I would consider any jazz basics collection incomplete, not that I'm a great authority on jazz but it just seems like there's a discourse at work that privileges some things in a list that like, tryin to unpack what that discourse is about

― a full circle lol (J0hn D.), Sunday, 4 October 2009 20:47 (39 seconds ago) Bookmark Suggest Ban Permalink

I have to admit it, im not keen on vocal jazz

pls to do it again with em dashes between artist and title, because it's too hard to read otherwise

lol @ machine gun

after all that I'm voting Albert Ayler I think

kidding, kidding, ouch

aye now with added brotzman and sextant

tho i feel i shouldve added an album nominated by j0hn.
I guess im not the only one who dislikes vocal jazz then? or are vocal jazz artists more interested in the SONG rather than the ALBUM?

which i suppose is what j0hn was asking

mind you it's not just jazz that i like instrumental music wise. I do dig me a lot of post-rock and krautrock and electronic instrumental music. But jazz is definitely the most instrumental preferred genre i like.

what!!?? no Fire Music!!!??? this, my good sir, is an outrage! AN OUTRAGE!!!

I voted Africa/Brass in the end, btw - Coltrane is so bedrock-level for me that he's like the alphabet, I still remember the feel of the room in which I sat and listened to the impulse reissues in the late eighties goin OH FUCK OH FUCK THIS IS AWESOME. Lady in Satin would have beat Africa/Brass for me if it was on the list, and there's some Ellington live sides especially late ones that I would rep as hard for because Duke Ellington is just THE MAN in my book, but I got no complaints.

it seems so weird to me to love jazz & not love vocal jazz! I can see how once it gets much more mannered & codified maybe but the vocal innovators, the best jazz singers, shoot I'll put 'em all up again Coltrane & Miles & Monk & whoever else

you get back to your Rotting Christ cds ;)
xpost

this cd-r of lena horne singing Non Serviam is fucking epic btw

J0hn, you should really do a vocal jazz albums poll, so that people like me can check out what is recommended. That's why polls that aren't just the same rock canon polls are useful.

Would like to nominate Mingus @ Antibes and Art Blakey's Moanin. Plus basically anything involving Spanky DeBrest. This is the nomination round, right?

I know you dont really like polls as you prefer discussion, but i hope the polls promote discussion. And by having an end result it really is a good guide to checking out albums.

iirc gear did a best jazz ever nominations thread but never got round to voting.

I will try and get to it! I gotta get outta here in 1/2 an hour so it won't be today tho

xpost yeah I am more accepting of polls now, I still hate how once they're over it's like WHELP THERE YOU GO KIND OF BLUE'S THE BEST, DID THAT but I am over it

Yeah i'll never understand why in 90% of polls there's great discussion but when the results come in no bugger wants to discuss them!
If they do it's either
A) "Predictable!"
B) "not the results i expected it must have been a troll!"

I'd like to get involved in discussion but my knowledge is pretty limited and I am not wise enough yet to talk about the music I like in terms other than say, "wow bass" or "wow trumpet" or "wow etc."

wow that's more than I know!

you don't know what bass sounds like?

the other thing though is I am guessing, and this is why I think it's a subject worth discussing as a subthread, that while there'll be big partisans for Monk or Trane or Mingus or Miles or even Bill Evans or Stan Getz (if there were some other Bill Evans records on here they would have been heavy competition for me, can't get enough Bill Evans), there wouldn't really be that much interest beyond Lady in Satin & maybe some Betty Carter, which as I say is weird to me - it's like some of the basics of the genre become this land of nope-not-that-please, and i don't know another genre in which that's true. like, most black metal lifers I know still give much respect to the trad metal that paved the way, and listen to it & enjoy it, from the 70s proto-doom & boogie down through eighties classics like Maiden or Mercyful Fate or the early Metallica stuff, plenty of Bay Area thrash that bears a relationship to black metal that might be passably analogous to vocal jazz:post-bop jazz maybe

I just mean that I never concentrate on an instrument or get trainspottery like musician friends do. Im like the anti-muso, i run away from all instrument talk. I cant play any yet i like a lot of instrumental music and if you asked me who played what on any jazz cd or anything id give you a blank look!
xpost

(my actual guess about vocals is that the ear & mind so naturally & automatically [for whatever reason] give an inordinate amount of focus to the vocals that the instruments, even without the listener's full consent, get faded into the background. take Tony Bennett and Bill Evans, a classic fucking album: you have to work to focus on the (amazing) piano work & its interaction with Bennett, because it's just impossible to ignore those vocal chops & the timbre. which, too, might be the way Evans would think of as natural: that gorgeous or not, the role of the player is to support the song, and the song rests in the melodic line. lots of stuff to think on for me in here)

i like it when ilxors use polls as an excuse to live-blog their opinions on shit they hadn't listened to previously myself. i remember Rev doing some of those in the old P&J poll threads. loads of fun.

xxxxp

When I do a poll on stuff that a lot of people aren't familiar with I like to hope they will check it all out. The main reason i started
Best 70s FUNK Album (From RYM)

Oh ok. My mate who got me listening to it - who I haven't spoken to in years, maybe I should - played tenor sax so he was always pointing out specific parts and I kind of went with it. Still don't know who does what, I'm still too busy disgesting the obvious classics to get to know what I like and dislike to focus in on individual musicians I want to explore further but I know I will in the future. (It's very much related to being a bit of a hip-hop geek always looking out for that producer or this kind of sample etc.)

xposts.

I just wish some would do polls on genres im not familiar with so I could check stuff out.

Bimble said in CHATZ once on aim he would do a best goth 50 from RYM. Sadly he isn't around now to do that. But I bet the enthusiasm he would have shown on it would have led to people checking out stuff they hadnt given the time of day to before.

I just wish some would do polls on genres im not familiar with so I could check stuff out.

Bimble said in CHATZ once on aim he would do a best goth 50 from RYM. Sadly he isn't around now to do that. But I bet the enthusiasm he would have shown on it would have led to people checking out stuff they hadnt given the time of day to before.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Sunday, 4 October 2009 21:17 (26 seconds ago) Bookmark

I thought about doing a whole TEACH COUNTRY MUSIC TO IGNORANT BRITISHERS thread but then remembered that there is too much music I haven't heard in genres I already know I love, let alone ones I don't yet care for.

problem there is that Ned hates polls.

xp

thats ned's loss

people who want discussion can post in poll threads. Those who dont are cutting their noses off to spite their face.

and im not having a go at Ned btw. Im pretty sure he does post in poll threads he just doesnt vote.

yeah but you gotta concede the validity of saying "what's the point, no matter where the discussion's at, once the poll closes it will be effectively dead because a lot of people posting to poll threads have this idea that the results 'settle' something" - if you want to keep discussing something after the results come in, there's bizarro "get over it, your horse didn't win" lols - polls have a kinda unhealthy way of casting a q so I can see somebody'd go "fuck it, I don't do poll threads" - I had polls hidden for a long time for just this reason, the narrative of a poll thread is uber irritating

but if those who dislike the fact everything ends once a result is in they can still keep discussing and others will then join in. It's not like the thread is locked once a poll ends. You have to make it happen.

I know I'm most probably going to come back to this thread as I make my way through the albums on the list.

but if those who dislike the fact everything ends once a result is in they can still keep discussing and others will then join in. It's not like the thread is locked once a poll ends. You have to make it happen.

feel you here but some of the best discussers are also in the "the poll settled the question and I've lost interest now" party

I gotta go, vote Coltrane in your heart you know it's the right thing to do

what the fuck is this thread

Music Pre-Will2k.

Re vocal jazz:

Like I said in the last thread, it's just not something I'm into, especially by the '60s. I'm also not into Ye Ye, or a lot of the vocal pop from the '50s and '60s, the Frank Sinatra, Pat Boone stuff. It just doesn't connect with me.

John mentioned not being able to imagine a jazz collection without it, and yeah, if I were building a collection of "jazz" to be preserved for future historians, I'd feel remiss if I didn't put some in. But it's just not something I care about or that interests me—I'm not building the platonic jazz collection, I'm building a collection of jazz that I listen to and enjoy.

I'm also not a huge fan of "smooth" as a virtue, and a lot of vocal jazz does (at least to me) seem to privilege that as the proper voicing.

If you want to hear vocal jazz that's not overtly smooth and mannered, check out these albums:

http://www.dustygroove.com/images/products/t/thomas_leon_spiritskn_101b.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_FXs64cnHmlc/RqtOFGVJAuI/AAAAAAAAAdI/vMjJ2TgVF-k/s400/thomas_leon_leonthoma_101b.jpg

Leon Thomas does stuff with his voice that's equal to the best instrumental improvizers in jazz.

This one's a bit smoother than Leon Thomas, but it's still rooted in the spiritual/cosmic jazz of the 60s and early 70s:

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_79B8V96zY64/RmTcUdyx7SI/AAAAAAAAAgM/U2OMVtz3uPI/s400/bey_andy+experience.jpg

Andy Bey has an incredible voice and way of phrasing, so deep and hypnotizing.

This one's my favourite vocal jazz album, it's totally smooth and mannered, but still kicks ass:

http://i27.tinypic.com/2n9ajgo.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8cFdZyWOOs

Just listen to Vaughan's "solo" on this tune!

I'm not a fan of vocal jazz either, partially for reasons of smoothness, etc. mentioned above. however, I think it's not so much vocals that are the problem as lyrics. they bring a little too much banal concrete meaning to a very abstract and fluid form.

(i actually find lyrics problematic and superfluous in many genres...but it's particularly pronounced in jazz.)

but it's not a hard and fast rule, just a common preference -I can certainly get behind chet baker, nina simone, billie holiday, etc. so thanks for the recommendations tuomas. I shall check 'em out.

If lyrics are a problem, there are folks like Bobby McFerrin who do cool wordless improvisation:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=37DHXrFfwrE

(I know it can get a bit gimmicky, but the guy is still pretty impressive!)

i half expected a scatman john video by tuomas or noodle vague here

(ps dont post one)

this album is hella fun actually.

i bet it was a blast to make, you can just feel it.

Ad Lib on Nippon! Why is none of this on youtube? Anyway I have made it to the end of this album and have to say I am v. disappointed it didn't get one vote.

who else voted for Machine Gun besides me?

Samuel, check out Afro-Eurasian Eclipse for another late, really fun, hard-groovin' Duke concept record.

I believe it was Duke's last record, released posthumously. It's alot of fun and has Digeridoo on it, which is great.

I will! Cheers! Gonna do some boring tv poll things and then check the new 50 cent but after that, the duke and a dig. :)

Holy shit you guys if you have not heard the record Jon recommended I say go find it now and jam that shit. 'Afrique' is especially ridic.

http://images.uulyrics.com/cover/d/duke-ellington/album-the-afro-eurasian-eclipse.jpg

Yeah. That record is great. There's a "rock" feel to it, but it never loses its jazz character.

Between this and Money Jungle... just wow. Duke really living up to his name, John Wayne can fuck right off.

There are a couple different versions of this and I'm not sure if what I am listening to is the 'correct' thing but

http://static.rateyourmusic.com/album_images/7c9a8aa87131212d4ad4b60597e26c20/11692.jpg yo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBDdgYOjK5A !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm very surprised by the results of this poll. A bit disturbed by it, to tell the truth. Do people think this is a reasonably accurate snapshot of what jazz fans on ILM think is good jazz, or even just good music? Please say no.

actually to me it seems pretty accurate in representing what kind of jazz ILM mostly digs - mostly mingus, electric miles, herbie's early 70s stuff, free & avant jazz. i love that stuff and a lot more as well, tho i voted for miles smiles

tho it is pretty cool how out of these 50 albums just about all of them got at least 1 vote

Yeah, there seems to be a lot more fans of free and electric and soul/funk jazz plus hard bop than there are of swing and other big band stuff or vocal jazz or even bebop. I admit that I belong to this group too, I've nothing against more traditional forms of jazz, but my knowledge of them is simply more limited.

Also, this being an album poll means that artists whose main body of work was in the pre-album era are obviously not gonna get a good showing. If were to do a poll on who's simply the greatest jazzman/woman of all time, I'm sure people like Ellington or Holiday would get a lot of votes.

"I'm very surprised by the results of this poll. A bit disturbed by it, to tell the truth. Do people think this is a reasonably accurate snapshot of what jazz fans on ILM think is good jazz, or even just good music? Please say no."

What the hell are you on about?

mingus beating coltrane 3-1 does suggest a pretty odd consensus imo but I'm not sure that's what he means

I'm just surprised. I wasn't expecting older stuff to do better, just different stuff.

tbf there are 8 coltrans albums on that list and 4 by mingus, so vote-splitting may have had something to do with it. but i love all this records and am not inclined to talk shit abt any of them really. What I do find surprising is that Horace Silver only got one vote, even if that isn't my favorite album of his.

coltransformers.

why are people surprised Mingus won an ilm poll?

I guess I'd mildly grouse about the Mingus win just because I think Black Saint is over-rated (I love Mingus x5 and Tijuana Moods, which wasn't even an option), but it is a pretty great album, so…

I do wonder how this would go with a ranked, nominated poll, rather than an ILX default.

C'mon, Tuomas, drop that '80s poll and do this instead!

lurkers never bother with email polls though, so you will get 10 voters and that's that. If only keith could create ranked polls for ilx.

Having had a couple of days to digest this my first post on this thread seems crass and I wish I could un-post it. I don't normally feel disturbed by people liking different music from me. But the order of this list was like a minor shock to my view of the world. Which I suppose says nothing at all, except that I would have been terrible at predicting what ILM would like.

FWIW I like pretty much all the albums on that list. I know all of them, I know most of them very well, and quite a lot of the music I've transcribed chunks of and/or played versions of. Many of the albums wouldn't be in my personal top 50, but that will be true of most voters. I didn't think it was an obviously bad list.

Nor was I under any illusion that my taste in jazz was going to be replicated by ILM. I had my times of being very keen on free jazz and also Coltrane, for example, but those are times past and I'm not much interested in either now. But of course I expected them to poll well.

But Black Saint winning, especially overwhelmingly, was a surprise. I love lots of Mingus but feel he never really released a consistently great album - and that he certainly didn't come closest on Black Saint. It's a thrilling and original piece of work on first listen, no doubt, but not an album I'd go back to often after the first few listens. ILM thinking IASW is Miles's best, and by a big margin, was less of a surprise butit's not in his top 10 for me. Sextant, Alice Coltrane, and Karma all placing in the top 10, though, was the real eye-opener. None of these would be anywhere near my top 50, never mind my top 10 - which is not to say I think they're bad albums. But people rate these among the top 10 jazz albums ever? I'm still finding it difficult to get my head round that.

welcome to ilm!

Sextant, Alice Coltrane, and Karma all placing in the top 10, though, was the real eye-opener.

People like ARPs & sleighbells.

After years of neglect, I finally got around to listening to Black Saint in its entirety. Thrilling is a good descriptor...I really felt like I was taken on a journey with that album... but I couldn't vote for a record with such a large ensemble. I guess my ultimate preference is for small group jazz, which influenced my vote (for A Love Supreme, btw.)

lurkers never bother with email polls though, so you will get 10 voters and that's that. If only keith could create ranked polls for ilx.

― pfunkboy (Herman G. Neuname), Monday, 2 November 2009 12:26 (4 hours ago) Bookmark

As someone who's currently doing a email poll, I have to disagree with this. About 2/5 of my voters were lurkers.

http://theselvedgeyard.files.wordpress.com/2009/04/thelonious-monk-monks-music-photographic-print-c13059271.jpeg

The cover alone makes me wanna hear this. Cover also screams 'perfect music for listening to while counting down telly shows on the internet'.

The big revelation for me, too, in the 2 big ILM jazz polls that just happened, was the degree of ILX Alice Coltrane love. I had no idea! I will checking out stuff from her '5 album run' real soon because of this.

Alice is great. it seems kinda wrong, but I own more of her music than her husband's

Me too. I don't know why it should be wrong, even if he was a better player, I like her sound more.

eh you know he's just so canonical (AND prolific), he's such a common point of reference for all of jazz. But her stuff goes places that are more interesting to me than hard bop/modal/free what-have-you. The combo of Indian/non-American instrumentatino + harp + orchestral weirdness + totally amazing collaborators makes her more interesting to me

yow, is there a TS: Alice vs. John? (John is better than Alice btw. Let's be real. Love 'em both, but ...)

(John is better than Alice btw. Let's be real. Love 'em both, but ...)

^^^isn't this the stance of almost everyone in the jazz d-bag free world and thus making a ts redundant?

well, i mean, clearly there's some disagreement here on this thread!

Like I said, John may be better as an instrumentalist, but I haven't heard any John albums that would sound sound as cool and atmospheric and immersive as Satchidananda or Universal Consciousness or Eternity, so that's why I prefer Alice.

yeah, i don't really want to do have an argument over "who is better" ... they're both great! I love living in a universe with music by both of them.

Now a Pharoah vs Alice TS might provoke more debate.

in a weird way I'm perfectly happy to acknowledge John as the "better" artist while still preferring to listen to Alice more often

yeah that works -- i mean, I probably listen to Lee Morgan more than Dizzy Gillespie, but I'm not gonna say Lee was better than Diz.

did we ever do a best Coltrane album poll?

yea, i think you created it!

i cant remember who won it then (or creating it)

found it John Coltrane (as Leader) Albums Poll

(couldnt find it earlier when i used the search function)

71 cds for £140
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Complete-Miles-Davis/dp/B002EOF7U8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1257710958&sr=8-1

CD Description
Limited edition boxset of 52 albums on 70 CDs in mini replica vinyl jackets and an exclusive bonus DVD – Miles Davis Quintet: Wayne Shorter, Herbie Hancock, Ron Carter, Tony Williams / Live In Europe ’67 (the only footage of this legendary group commercially released). There's also a 250 page color book with essays, rare photographs and memorabilia, previously unreleased/rare audio on Quiet Nights, At Plugged Nickel Chicago, In Paris Festival International De Jazz and We Want Miles and the first-time ever complete audio release of 8/29/70 Isle Of Wight festival performance.

That's my xmas sorted!

http://images.amazon.com/images/G/01/richmedia/images/cover.gif

http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51aUKE31wwL._SL500_AA240_.jpg

watch the promo